Have at it, gang.
Early line: Over/under at 400 comments.
UPDATE: Hoax-a-rific.
Red Meat for H&R Commenters
Comments to "Red Meat for H&R Commenters":
Elemenope | April 17, 2008, 1:03pm | #
Shvarts said she did not intend the project to have "shock value" or to generate controversy.That's politician-level bullshit. The rest is just "crazy artist makes a splash" standard fare, unless of course you think that fetuses are human beings.
Now, if she could have gay sex while smoking crack and then have her abortions, that would be shocking. No it wouldn't. But it might be entertaining.
I feel strongly that the NEA should not subsidize this art display.
Soup and sandwich for lunch today. Saving my money for beer this weekend.
Pro Libertate | April 17, 2008, 1:06pm | #
It's wrong, and I'm fairly agnostic on the abortion debate.Burn her.
Elemenope | April 17, 2008, 1:06pm | #
"Yale should be ashamed that it is allowing an 'art' project that will offend millions of Americans," she said.What an epic-level whiner.
Happy Jack | April 17, 2008, 1:07pm | #
Sperm donors? That sounds awfully expensive. And how do they know it's real blood? This looks like a p.r. stunt.Fertilized eggs may not be persons, but they're not lumps of charcoal, either.
Geez, I used to hide my boogies by sticking them under the desk. Who knew that was art?
dbcooper | April 17, 2008, 1:07pm | #
@Cesar: Ditto.BTW, here's the little hipster:
http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
KB | April 17, 2008, 1:07pm | #
I don't know how many posts it'll get here, but I saw that on the Drudge Report this morning and it brought down the Yale Daily News server.Neil | April 17, 2008, 1:08pm | #
This is why we need to elect strong Republicans like McCain to protect the sanctitty of the unborn!B. Hussein Obama would probably give federal funding to outrages like this! Someone should ask him what he thinks of this at the next debate.
Elemenope | April 17, 2008, 1:09pm | #
Early line: Over/under at 400 comments.Boring. Better over/under: How many minutes into their show before Sean Hannity/Joe Scarborough/et al. bring this up and coat their respective camera lenses with indignant outraged wads of spittle. I'm going with 7 minutes.
Elemenope | April 17, 2008, 1:11pm | #
Fertilized eggs may not be persons, but they're not lumps of charcoal, either.I suppose not. Charcoal is useful, for one thing.
anon. | April 17, 2008, 1:12pm | #
Remember when "artists" had to, like, paint and stuff? The real tragedy is that this hack is going to have a diploma from Yale in a couple of months.Taktix® | April 17, 2008, 1:13pm | #
BTW, here's the little hipster:http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
Now I know why she had to be inseminated artificially...
fish | April 17, 2008, 1:13pm | #
Boring. Better over/under: How many minutes into their show before Sean Hannity/Joe Scarborough/et al. bring this up and coat their respective camera lenses with indignant outraged wads of spittle. I'm going with 7 minutes.Far be it from me to defend either of the aforementioned assholes...but if there was ever a reason to emit copius wads of spit.......
Neil | April 17, 2008, 1:14pm | #
Remember when Yale was a Christian school?This is what happens when American turns away from Judeo-Christian values and endorsas Nihillistic Athiesm.
John-David | April 17, 2008, 1:16pm | #
I'm hungry for cherry cobbler.Jamie Kelly | April 17, 2008, 1:16pm | #
I'm just pissed that the NEA denied a grant for my cum-rag sculpture.Jamie Kelly | April 17, 2008, 1:18pm | #
Remember when Yale was a Christian school?This is what happens when American turns away from Judeo-Christian values and endorsas Nihillistic Athiesm.
Given your atrociously shitty spelling and shallow thinking, I'm surprised that you've even heard of Yale.
Scooby | April 17, 2008, 1:19pm | #
edited after preview...Dammit, Taktix (1:13pm), you beat me by a few minutes.
foxhunter | April 17, 2008, 1:19pm | #
[i]Remember when "artists" had to, like, paint and stuff?[/i]Nope...
MikeB | April 17, 2008, 1:20pm | #
A few weeks ago I went to the Dallas Museum of Art and saw a display of plaster blocks randomly stacked. Now, A few nights of blackout-induced sex is also considered art.They just keep lowering the bar...
Other Matt | April 17, 2008, 1:21pm | #
Shvarts said she did not intend the project to have "shock value" or to generate controversy."I hope it inspires some sort of disclosure. Sure, some people will be upset with the message and will not agree with it, but it’s not the intention of the piece to scandalize anyone,” she said.
WTF is this "Message" supposed to be?
Franklin Harris | April 17, 2008, 1:21pm | #
Remember when Yale was a Christian school?No.
lunchstealer | April 17, 2008, 1:21pm | #
This is what happens when American turns away from Judeo-Christian values and endorsas Nihillistic Athiesm.I mean, say what you will about the merits of a brutally repressive theocracy, but at least it's an ethos.
Episiarch | April 17, 2008, 1:22pm | #
I give her a "A+" for "creative way of getting massive attention through offensiveness".I'm already interested in her next stunt. She really went the extra mile on this one.
Cesar | April 17, 2008, 1:23pm | #
So if I placed a flaming bag of poo on the steps of the US Capitol to send a "message" could I get a diploma from Yale?Because this is about on the level.
lunchstealer | April 17, 2008, 1:23pm | #
"I hope it inspires some sort of disclosure. Sure, some people will be upset with the message and will not agree with it, but it’s not the intention of the piece to scandalize anyone,” she said.Disclosure? What exactly is supposed to be disclosed? I think this girl got her ideas and justification from the manitees. Now we know what they were doing during the WGA strike.
Bside | April 17, 2008, 1:23pm | #
While her art may seem a bit amateurish and bad even, the issues she is dealing with are not all that radical for the contemporary art world. Dealing with the body, metaphors about reproduction and using long form, personal performative techniques are not new and relevant to artistic discourse in the 21st century. I think she actually could be a decent artist, just young and unformed.This person aside, I have to say that I'm always surprised when otherwise intelligent and informed people (like my fine fellow H&R readers), who are completely comfortable with technological, scientific and social progress seem to think that artists are still painting bowls of fruit in their atelier somewhere. Whenever I tell anyone that I'm an artist, they say, "Oh, what kind of things do you paint?" As if the last 150 years hadn't happened. It's like asking a biochemist how that turning base metal into gold thing is coming.
Anyway, I think it's important think about this woman's art on its own terms, and not jump to that old saw of "this isn't even art."
That said, she seems like she is wrapped very tightly in all this art school speak and needs to grow out of it. And while this may be getting some hype in the regular press, the art press is jaded and has seen this all before and will largely ignore it.
Episiarch | April 17, 2008, 1:23pm | #
"but it’s not the intention of the piece to scandalize anyone"She also gets an "A+" for "total bullshittery".
On further thought I am actually shocked and offended. Congratulations shocking and offending artist, you have managed to trample on human sensibilities about life. Congratulations.
J | April 17, 2008, 1:24pm | #
I have the very pc view that (very approximately) people = dogs =/> babies > lizards etc >>> fetuses.But, killing even something so low for something of so little value seems wrong.
rana | April 17, 2008, 1:24pm | #
I can't believe anyone one considers that art."They just keep lowering the bar..."
No shit. It reminds me of those people who go on talk/reality shows and "admit" they are a trannie and slept with their gay granma.
It's just shock value.
rana | April 17, 2008, 1:26pm | #
"So if I placed a flaming bag of poo on the steps of the US Capitol to send a "message" could I get a diploma from Yale?Because this is about on the level."
ahahahahaha!!!!! We have a winner!
Other Matt | April 17, 2008, 1:26pm | #
That said, she seems like she is wrapped very tightly in all this art school speak and needs to grow out of it. And while this may be getting some hype in the regular press, the art press is jaded and has seen this all before and will largely ignore it.So seeing as how I'm like all ignorant of art and the like, can you answer what the hell her "message" is supposed to be here?
Mad Scientist | April 17, 2008, 1:27pm | #
I say kudos! I'm all for this girl NOT reproducing.MadVeterinarian | April 17, 2008, 1:27pm | #
When's Christo come in and wrap the fetuses in microwave foil?GG | April 17, 2008, 1:27pm | #
A few weeks ago I went to the Dallas Museum of Art and saw a display of plaster blocks randomly stacked. Now, A few nights of blackout-induced sex is also considered art.They just keep lowering the bar...
Google Guillermo Habacuc Vargas for a real treat.
Heinrick | April 17, 2008, 1:27pm | #
You can pry my aborted fetus from my cold dead uterus.OGRE | April 17, 2008, 1:27pm | #
She looks like a reject from Fame. The movie.Hope she doesn't plan on having any children later on. That womb is probably pretty battered up by now...
Phil D | April 17, 2008, 1:28pm | #
I thought human was white meat.NoStar | April 17, 2008, 1:28pm | #
Put me down as having no comment.KD | April 17, 2008, 1:28pm | #
foxhunter | April 17, 2008, 1:19pm | #Yah, most of us weren't alive then.
[i]Remember when "artists" had to, like, paint and stuff?[/i]
Nope...
Daniel | April 17, 2008, 1:28pm | #
Though I believe abortion should be legal, I feel the repeated intentional impregnation for the purpose of aborting should have criminal consequences for the bitch (I can't consider her a woman) and anyone on the Yale staff who approved or knew of this project.I hope Karma fucks with her later.
Fluffy | April 17, 2008, 1:28pm | #
Actually, I think this is a very interesting and important piece of art, precisely because it is so shocking and provocative.I don't understand what the pro-life guy is complaining about. This helps him. The subtext of the piece is obvious: if abortions are not the taking of human life, this piece of art is not offensive. Or at least, no more offensive than accidentally getting a glimpse of a used pad in the bathroom garbage can. Those who are offended by it should re-evaluate their beliefs on the question of the life of a fetus.
I think this is probably closely related to the Atrios hobbyhorse of whether we should strive to make abortion "rare", the way many Democrat politicians say. The only reason to want it to be rare is if you think it is wrong. This artist seems to be throwing that idea out there in a plastic form. That shows more thought than 99% of the art I hear about.
dbcooper | April 17, 2008, 1:29pm | #
And Bside pops up with a timely reminder that some poor bastard had to read her critical theory essay on this.Almost makes me grateful that I still grade lab reports.
Ali | April 17, 2008, 1:29pm | #
Does she think that she's helping her cause? Stupid.Prolefeed | April 17, 2008, 1:30pm | #
BTW, here's the little hipster:http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
Now I know why she had to be inseminated artificially...
Actually, if she posted an ad offering free sex on Craigslist, she'd have 200 replies within a couple of hours, if what I've read on Best of Craigslist bears any relation to reality. 500 replies if she was good-looking.
Some men will f*ck anything.
Jim Bob | April 17, 2008, 1:31pm | #
The more attention people give her over this, the harder she wins.BUT
I can't even imagine how grandly self-absorbed a person would have to be to contemplate doing such a thing. Also, I am curious about what her "message" is supposed to be- did she really have anything to say, or is she just an attention whore?
Jamie Kelly | April 17, 2008, 1:31pm | #
I thought human was white meat.Well, technically, a fetus is not fully cooked. They're sort of pink, if I recall my last feast correctly. Also, beware of getting worms.
bside | April 17, 2008, 1:32pm | #
dbcooper -Not reading her critical theory paper was exactly the motivation I had not to teach art out of grad school. I work a productive and economy-enriching corporate job like everybody else.
loli | April 17, 2008, 1:33pm | #
The misinformation in the LifeNews article masks the best part!According to this article from Yale Daily News, the girl didn't use RU-486 as stated in LifeNews but an unknown "legal and herbal" abortifacient. And, of course, because it's from NATURE it's not going to be harmful to her health!11!!
some dude | April 17, 2008, 1:33pm | #
I say kudos! I'm all for this girl NOT reproducing.Yet she did. Several times.
Jim Bob | April 17, 2008, 1:33pm | #
Fluffy,I'm sorry, but I don't believe she put that much thought into it. I'm going with "attention whore."
Butler T. Reynolds | April 17, 2008, 1:34pm | #
Remember when no-talent ass-joints just used feces and urine to get attention?So, does one really need to go to Yale to do this? Seems like you could pull this stunt at a community college and still get plenty of notice.
I guess if you're trying to lash out at your wealthy neglectful parents, this would be the way to do it.
TDL | April 17, 2008, 1:34pm | #
Fairly disgusting and I can't see how it's art, but she's not killing a human (at least not so early in the pregnancy.) I'm taking the under.Regards,
TDL
Bingo | April 17, 2008, 1:34pm | #
Offer for natural insemination services has been retracted!
BTW, here's the little hipster:
http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
madmikefisk | April 17, 2008, 1:35pm | #
I think the "whore" part of "attention whore" goes without saying, but still......the lengths some people go through for their "art". I wouldn't pay to see it, I'd probably laugh at the people who think it is worth seeing, and wonder what the hell was going through her mind to think that it was a good idea, just considering the risks inherent in the project. To me, it's almost like Van Gogh displaying the ear he cut off in a museum.
Jamie Kelly | April 17, 2008, 1:37pm | #
Fluffy,You're reading WAY too much into this rich-bitch cow who just shit out a couple of fetus burgers to get a lot of undeserved attention.
But hey, I'm sure there's room for a Ph.d dissertation in there somehwere.
dbcooper | April 17, 2008, 1:38pm | #
@bside: It wasn't intended as a criticism of you, was merely noting that (esp. from your last paragraph) your post strongly suggested the possibility.ps. Your reasons are the same as my buddy's for going back to selling liquor after his MFA. Well, that and money/booze/pussy.
Ska | April 17, 2008, 1:39pm | #
While anyone who calls this art easily can, I can just as fairly observe that it is an uninteresting, unappealing waste of my time.SugarFree | April 17, 2008, 1:41pm | #
"Leopard high-waisted shorts? Fringed booties? Did her abuse of some seriously strong-ass prescription drugs also kill her retinas? 'Cause that outfit is one of her many crimes against humanity."squarooticus | April 17, 2008, 1:42pm | #
Yawn... another day, another person doing something revolting that has zero impact on my life, another blog post filled with outraged comments.dbcooper | April 17, 2008, 1:43pm | #
Ah SugarFree, that was my favourite too.No how about some selections from pandagon, feministing, etc etc etc
bisde | April 17, 2008, 1:44pm | #
dbcooper -No offense taken. I was echoing your thoughts.
And if it wasn't for art and booze, I'd likely never get any pussy. Or money.
joe | April 17, 2008, 1:45pm | #
I suppose not. Charcoal is useful, for one thing.Some of us consider "the continuation of the human species" and "the creation of unique individuals" to be useful, but YMMV.
Guy Montag | April 17, 2008, 1:45pm | #
Early line: Over/under at 400 comments.Oddly, that number would be difficult to make with only joe providing comments every 2 min. Now that Neil is here it seems well within reach.
some dude | April 17, 2008, 1:46pm | #
Fluffy's right. This has the potential to be a turning point. Flaunting irrisponsibility may just convince others that some people can't be trusted with the responsibility.PC | April 17, 2008, 1:47pm | #
It is rather disgusting. Also I am also fairly lukewarm on the abortion debate, legally I take an anti-Roe v Wade, Pro Choice position which adheres to federalism, but I am personally pro life. But if one were zealous about being pro choice, both legally and personally, I don't see how they cannot be disgusted and annoyed by these actions because stuff like this hurts their cause.And as other people have said, this is not art for the sake of art, it is art for the sake of attention. Creating something only for shock value is not creative at all in my book. This does not provoke thought or thinking, it provokes emotional backlash.
madmikefisk | April 17, 2008, 1:47pm | #
Look at it this way... it's probably the widest array of preserved unique human DNA since the panties of Kobe Bryant's accuser a couple years back...Elemenope | April 17, 2008, 1:47pm | #
Some of us consider "the continuation of the human species" and "the creation of unique individuals" to be useful, but YMMV.You'd be shocked just how little one fetus contributes to the general propagation of the species, and as for unique individuals I've seen precious little evidence they exist in any significant number.
SugarFree | April 17, 2008, 1:48pm | #
dbcooper,Feministing has been strangely quiet. They are probably waiting until they think up a way to blame it all on men.
Guy Montag | April 17, 2008, 1:49pm | #
as for unique individuals I've seen precious little evidence they exist in any significant number.So everybody is different, except you? :)
joe | April 17, 2008, 1:49pm | #
And you'd be shocked just how little one lump of charcoal contributes to the cooking needs of humanity.So?
Elemenope | April 17, 2008, 1:49pm | #
this is not art for the sake of art, it is art for the sake of attention.If art's purpose is to communicate ideas, emotions, or positions, then all art is art for the sake of attention.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Elemenope | April 17, 2008, 1:50pm | #
YMMV = Your Mileage May VaryI've seen precious little evidence they exist in any significant number is mainly a statement about your perceptive ability.
Jamie Kelly | April 17, 2008, 1:51pm | #
Nevermind, joe. I found out. Just don't make me have to google any of your netspeak again.Jamie Kelly | April 17, 2008, 1:52pm | #
Catholic joe is here! Catholic joe is here!bside | April 17, 2008, 1:53pm | #
PC-"this is not art for the sake of art, it is art for the sake of attention."
Is there something wrong with trying to get attention? Or trying to advance your career?
That is a lousy argument on a libertarian message board. I'm shocked at such anti-free market commie pinko evilness.
Taktix® | April 17, 2008, 1:53pm | #
This, and the link to the dead dog, presents a viable question:Where do you draw the line between art and criminality? Could a guy murder another guy with a steel dildo and claim it to be art?
I fail to see the value here, but since I see no coercion going on I also fail to see any objection.
joe | April 17, 2008, 1:53pm | #
Correction: Bad Catholic joe is here.Catholic joe would never say a fertilized egg isn't a person.
some dumass | April 17, 2008, 1:54pm | #
As others have said, art is supposed to stimulate the emotions. From that perspective alone, she has been successful.I bet she's voting for Hillary.
Miggs | April 17, 2008, 1:54pm | #
Shit, Feministing still hasn't picked this one up yet.Guy Montag | April 17, 2008, 1:54pm | #
Where do you draw the line between art and criminality? Could a guy murder another guy with a steel dildo and claim it to be art?Only as long as it is in a bedroom in certain coastal States.
PC | April 17, 2008, 1:55pm | #
Also since this is Radley post and I am surprised he hasn't, at least I have not seen him or anyone at Reason tackle the FLDS saga going on in Texas, all I can say is what gives? I think a thread about that would be rather diverse and interesting, and more importantly you have hundreds of children whose lives are up in the air because of a alleged case of abuse from one person. If Reason has done something on this somebody please correct me, but Reason is really dropping the ball on this one and it will be noted, especially since I was going to subscribe after tax day but the silence makes me think that my money would be better spent elsewhere. I don't even have to agree with the article, I would just like to see it covered because it is an important story.Jamie Kelly | April 17, 2008, 1:55pm | #
Is there something wrong with trying to get attention? Or trying to advance your career?Hey, we're all for markets here. If you can find out a way to sell diahrrea-sicles, more power to you. Doesn't mean we don't have an opinion on shitsticks, though.
Guy Montag | April 17, 2008, 1:55pm | #
Red Meat for H&R CommentersWouldn't this be the latest "other white meat"?
shecky | April 17, 2008, 1:56pm | #
Does it occur to anyone that she didn't even have to do any of the things she claimed. All it takes is the suggestion, and heads explode. Witness the starved dog project.I think the self mutilator is a better shock art gag. At least it's more difficult to fake amputations.
madmikefisk | April 17, 2008, 1:56pm | #
Catholic joe would never say a fertilized egg isn't a person.Granted, depends on what a person is... not referring to the egg, I'm referring to the egg carrier.
Jim Bob | April 17, 2008, 1:58pm | #
Molly Clark-Barol, a Yale student and commenter on the YDH's website, sums up Shvarts's egocentrism better than I could:"Congratulations, Aliza Shvarts '08: you have single-handedly trivialized not only an entire generation and a half's fight to gain and retain the right to choose, through harassment and against massive odds, but also history of women's struggles, not only politically, but with the emotional, moral, and spiritual impacts of the choice to terminate a pregnancy. You also spit upon every couple who has tried, and failed, sometimes repeatedly, to have children. it is the emotional impact of these struggles, emotional impact that you shamelessly exploit, not explore, in your senior project."
PC | April 17, 2008, 1:59pm | #
"Bside,"this is not art for the sake of art, it is art for the sake of attention."
Is there something wrong with trying to get attention? Or trying to advance your career?
That is a lousy argument on a libertarian message board. I'm shocked at such anti-free market commie pinko evilness."
When did I ever say that she should be silenced via the authorities or censored? She obviously shouldn't be subsidized in any way. Libertarians can make value judgements.
Guy Montag | April 17, 2008, 1:59pm | #
Also since this is Radley post and I am surprised he hasn't, at least I have not seen him or anyone at Reason tackle the FLDS saga going on in Texas, all I can say is what gives?I guess they are getting the same umbrella of protection that Sen. Jim Webb and his staff got for the 'toting around a pistol and ammo in DC without a license' episode.
shecky | April 17, 2008, 1:59pm | #
Meanwhile, I'm off to look at my lowbrow art of choice, 2 girls 1 cup...LarryA | April 17, 2008, 1:59pm | #
Shvarts said she did not intend the project to have "shock value" or to generate controversy. "I hope it inspires some sort of disclosure. Sure, some people will be upset with the message and will not agree with it, but it’s not the intention of the piece to scandalize anyone,” she said.If this was her aim, she failed. Give her an F.
Oops, the entirety of my 1:58 post is from the linked site- I didn't make it clear I'm not the one who's speaking. My bad.
old geezer | April 17, 2008, 2:01pm | #
Molly Clark-Barol, a Yale student and commenter on the YDH's website, sums up Shvarts's egocentrism better than I could: "Congratulations, Aliza Shvarts '08: you have single-handedly trivialized not only an entire generation and a half's fight to gain and retain the right to choose, through harassment and against massive odds, but also history of women's struggles, not only politically, but with the emotional, moral, and spiritual impacts of the choice to terminate a pregnancy. You also spit upon every couple who has tried, and failed, sometimes repeatedly, to have children. it is the emotional impact of these struggles, emotional impact that you shamelessly exploit, not explore, in your senior project."Well Said
The Democratic Republican | April 17, 2008, 2:01pm | #
Damn it, stop messing with joe -- he and I are on the same team for once.You don't have to be Catholic to believe that this perverse.
The Owner's Manual | April 17, 2008, 2:02pm | #
Now I know why she had to be inseminated artificially...I'd hit it.
Jaybird | April 17, 2008, 2:03pm | #
Shecky's right. The tip-off is the "artificially inseminated" part.Artificial insemination is fairly complicated and requires, at least, a team of doctors. Have we heard from this team of doctors?
It seems far more likely that she has either a "keeper" (google it) or some hatpins along with an insight into what would totally get people yelling.
If that's the case, she's one of the most brilliant artists since Frank Zappa.
dbcooper | April 17, 2008, 2:03pm | #
SugarFree, aren't you familiar with the following now?1. No womyn are free to make rational decisions in our patriarchy ruled slave society
2. ?
3. Men's fault.
I suspect they're looking for their "smoking gun." Something like a woman (what's the singular of womyn?) once had an abortion and then said it was because her boyfriend wanted her to. This undeniably establishes the coercive link, and you frat-boy, douche bag, white, male, patrician, date-rapists can't wriggle your way out of it this time.
etc etc etc
ps. That's more of a general thing, not characterising Feministing in particular.
Guy Montag | April 17, 2008, 2:04pm | #
You don't have to be Catholic to believe that this perverse.Yea, even some of us not-so-bitter-any-more Baptists share that view.
I had an ex who wanted to copulate during her menstruation over a canvas for an art project. All fetus killing aside, we ended up just defiling several classrooms after class hours, no blood involved...
dbcooper | April 17, 2008, 2:06pm | #
Does it occur to anyone that she didn't even have to do any of the things she claimed.Err, yep. But this is more fun.
old geezer | April 17, 2008, 2:06pm | #
old geezer is too slow with new fangled computer thingyElemenope | April 17, 2008, 2:08pm | #
Artificial insemination is fairly complicated and requires, at least, a team of doctors. Have we heard from this team of doctors?There was a successful case not so long ago (within the last decade or so) that used two high-tech tools: a calendar and a turkey baster. And no professional help. I'm too lazy to look it up.
Darwin | April 17, 2008, 2:09pm | #
With any luck she will have dramatically reduced the probability of carrying a pregnancy to full term in the future.bside | April 17, 2008, 2:12pm | #
PC -Of course you can make value judgments. Sounds like her work kind of sucks. Fine.
But to criticize her for doing it for attention is just a rotten argument from a lib perspective. It also misses the point entirely. The guy who paints portraits of puppies in oils is doing it for the attention. The question really is, is it good art? Does it succeed in doing what it sets out to do? Is it beautiful or thought provoking? Is it new or original? I'm not talking about this woman; these are the basic questions to ask when assessing a work of art. Or anything else for that matter.
Jamie Kelly | April 17, 2008, 2:12pm | #
what's the singular of womyn?Un ejemplo del especie inferior.
SugarFree | April 17, 2008, 2:13pm | #
dbcooper,It's really more of feministing thing, I think. They don't care for ambiguity. It's sort of like Lifetime Mystery Movies. What's the mystery? The guy did it. Or sometimes the younger woman. Feministing is loath to even bring a subject up until they have a clear black hat.
How old were the zygotes / embryos / fetuses / whatever at termination. I think that is what matters most and is not immediately clear here.
dantealiegri | April 17, 2008, 2:16pm | #
I think in terms of art, this does what Fluffy suggests, and draws the line in black and white in a way no manner of discussion can.For example:
For abortions I think if someone makes a mistake and needs an abortion, go for it.
This, however, I think is sick.
For that reason, I think it is good 'art' in some sense of the word.
Elemenope | April 17, 2008, 2:18pm | #
Feministing is loath to even bring a subject up until they have a clear black hat.And here I was thinking that the instinct of blame and scapegoating were all patriarchially-constructed male-dominant values.
Ethan | April 17, 2008, 2:19pm | #
Shvarts mixed Vaseline with the blood to prevent it from drying and placed the blood between sheets of plastic wrapped around the cube that hung from the ceiling.For a female artist trying to push the envelope, her method seems a bit, well, domestic. Sort of a lurid Martha Stewart Living.
J sub D | April 17, 2008, 2:19pm | #
Shit, Feministing still hasn't picked this one up yet.If they do, I'll read it. I still think it never happened.
Tommy_Grand | April 17, 2008, 2:19pm | #
I'll take under 400 for a beer.mk | April 17, 2008, 2:20pm | #
BTW, here's the little hipster:http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
She's kind of cute.
When are we allowed to toss out the "artist" moniker, and just call it "gross"?
Benway | April 17, 2008, 2:21pm | #
Having an abortion is a little like using heroin. Neither activity ought to be illegal, nor need anyone feel ashamed about doing it, no matter what their prudish busybody neighbors think.But to flaunt either one in public, for the sake of publicity, is more than a little distasteful.
To then call it art is an insult to artists that actually take time to perfect their craft.
And to claim that it's not intended to scandalize anyone is obvious bullshit.
This sort of art is a perfect illustration of the principle that not everything permissible ought to be done. I sincerely hope she makes the most of her 15 minutes, because this is sort of stunt that's likely to follow her for the remainder of her life.
Pro Libertate | April 17, 2008, 2:23pm | #
[W]hat's the singular of womyn?There is no singular for womyn. Womyn are a collective, strong in their unity.
Paul | April 17, 2008, 2:23pm | #
She's kind of cute.No, she looks like the typical, unattractive shrill feminist with bad hair and a nasally, annoying voice. She'll do well in life. I see a future position as a regular NPR contributor.
Benway | April 17, 2008, 2:24pm | #
Now that I think about it, alkali is probably right.Jim Bob | April 17, 2008, 2:25pm | #
The guy who paints portraits of puppies in oils is doing it for the attention.Not every person who wants to create art wants attention. For example, I could care less if you or anyone else reads anything I have ever written; I do it for the joy of the act (that and the fact that I probably suck is what will keep you from reading it).
Jamie Kelly | April 17, 2008, 2:26pm | #
There is no singular for womyn. Womyn are a collective, strong in their unity.Also see: Betty Crocker convention.
Taktix® | April 17, 2008, 2:27pm | #
I doubt this actually happened myself, but if it did, I imagine she said she was "artificially inseminated" simply to shield the "donor" from retribution.I also think she'll get her just desserts on this one. Try sleeping or cramming for a test with 50 fundie pro-lifers chanting outside of you dorm, 24/7.
bside | April 17, 2008, 2:27pm | #
Paul-"When are we allowed to toss out the "artist" moniker, and just call it "gross?"
You are suggesting that these things are mutually exclusive?
zoot allures | April 17, 2008, 2:28pm | #
I'm with those who say they don't completely buy this. More likely she used that "Keeper" thingy Jaybird mentioned than actually inseminated herself.I do have to say, though, it is perverse. And disturbing indeed if she actually did this. Yale student Molly Clark-Barol's response was spot on, having known a few couples have tried desperately to conceive.
Fetus | April 17, 2008, 2:28pm | #
Man, I totally had that coming.rana | April 17, 2008, 2:29pm | #
"Does it occur to anyone that she didn't even have to do any of the things she claimed. All it takes is the suggestion, and heads explode."Sure, and that also bothers me. Should I decide to take my used bloddy tampons and hang them on a Christmas tree, would that be art?
I suppose it could be argued that the message would be womanhood (virginity/whore/abortion/motherhood) vs Christianity.
hey, maybe I can get a degree from Yale too! :)
Colin | April 17, 2008, 2:30pm | #
This story put me in the mood:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjyqpxkKJCM
mk | April 17, 2008, 2:31pm | #
Should I decide to take my used bloddy tampons and hang them on a Christmas tree, would that be art?Hmmm.. (*scratches chin*) I believe this piece to be an ontological statement using minimal ideograms.
The Wine Commonsewer | April 17, 2008, 2:33pm | #
What LMOP said, first crack out of the box,Shvarts is not only full of shit, she is lying. Otherwise the artwork would be on display in her very private garage.
BTW, I've seen what a miscarriage looks like. Not pleasant.
sixstring | April 17, 2008, 2:33pm | #
The guy who paints portraits of puppies in oils is doing it for the attention.I paint with oils. It relaxes me and keeps me from drinking too much. If no one sees my work, well they're probably better off. Current politics has me painting less, drinking more.
The Wine Commonsewer | April 17, 2008, 2:34pm | #
There is no singular for womyn. Womyn are a collective, strong in their unity.Also see: Betty Crocker convention.
And, Iron My Shirt!
xxx | April 17, 2008, 2:36pm | #
what a sociopath she is. This sort of thing should be illegal. To artifically inseminate yourself for the purpose of having an abortion is sick and demented.Pro Libertate | April 17, 2008, 2:36pm | #
Now TWC, you're making Chelsea cry again.TallDave | April 17, 2008, 2:36pm | #
Shvarts said she did not intend the project to have "shock value" or to generate controversy.Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Aliza Shvarts says she artificially inseminated herself
She couldn't even get laid? Sheesh.
This woman has Issues.
rana | April 17, 2008, 2:36pm | #
"Un ejemplo del especie inferior."Lo correcto es decir: "un ejemplo de LA especie inferior"
Me sorprende que tu intelecto superior no haya capatado semejante error...
Bronwyn | April 17, 2008, 2:38pm | #
Since somebody (or somebodies, I didn't read the thread in toto) brought it up here, too, I'll reiterate my comment from TheAgitator thread. To wit:Artificial insemination of a perfectly fertile woman requires little more than a turkey baster, reasonably good timing and a freshly deposited/thawed sperm sample.
It’s how cows are inseminated all the time and (yes, this is a woman saying this), women need not be much different in this regard.
And TWC, my husband's version is, "bitch, bring me a beer! And where's my chicken pot pie?"
Elemenope | April 17, 2008, 2:38pm | #
Try sleeping or cramming for a test with 50 fundie pro-lifers chanting outside of you dorm, 24/7.Dude, the fundie pro-lifers *are* the final exam. The only people who should be pissed about that part are her *neighbors*.
TallDave | April 17, 2008, 2:38pm | #
I have to wonder though: what the hell is the point?She doesn't seem to be pro-life. It's certainly not going to appeal to pro-choice people.
Politically, I'm going with "shit nuts."
WalterBoswell | April 17, 2008, 2:39pm | #
Attention seeking ballbag she be. Wake me up when they're hacking limbs of the homeless.Lamar | April 17, 2008, 2:39pm | #
Lifenews.com: Sweet job on teh jurnalizms. I found this absolute gem from their website:"Lyon, France (LifeNews.com) -- A study by a French doctor using an abortion drug to treat pregnant women with arthritis shows that the drug is dangerous to their unborn children."
C'mon, that's an awesome lede, no?
The Wine Commonsewer | April 17, 2008, 2:40pm | #
She couldn't even get laid?Did you see the photo, Tall?
She's got black marks on her cheeks from chasing cars and biting tires. I wouldn't do her, not even with yours.
Actually, I've seen worse, but still it's fun to make fun of her for being ugly.
the OverKiller | April 17, 2008, 2:41pm | #
This would look great hanging over my new couch! I've done the den in reds and golds...The Wine Commonsewer | April 17, 2008, 2:43pm | #
And TWC, my husband's version is, "bitch, bring me a beer! And where's my chicken pot pie?"Ya know what you tell a woman with two black eyes? Nuthin', ya already done tole her twice.
Jesus Chrysler, that's so bad.....
dbcooper | April 17, 2008, 2:43pm | #
A little googling reveals:The Ming Period, 1999
There are periods of world history—large, expansive, extremely important and eventful times in human existence—that I will never remember, yet for as long as I live, I won’t forget the Ming Dynasty, for it was to the noise of their clashing swords that I became a woman. I was in seventh grade, age 13, and we were watching a movie on Chinese history. While the Mings were in the midst of expelling the Mongols, I began to feel this unearthly pain in my lower abdomen.
We were all sitting on the floor of the classroom to watch the movie and I remember attempting to discreetly lie on my belly in hopes that it might go away. Facedown in the scratchy carpet, I tried to figure out was happening to me. My two guesses were 1) appendicitis, and 2) my period. As the Mings were reforming the Chinese Civil Service Examinations, I weighed my options: if it was appendicitis, then either I would have to go to the hospital, or just die, and not have to come back to school in either instance. Of course, if I had gotten my period, then that was another matter—that meant a lot more.
Back in the days of middle school, at least at my middle school, getting one’s period was akin to a competitive sport. Everyone knew who had theirs already; everyone couldn’t wait to join their ranks in womanhood. My best friend at the time who I had known since preschool had gotten hers a couple months earlier, and I remember sitting jealously in my living room as my mother congratulated her and explained to her womanhood, what it meant to grow up, and the finer points of the tampon vs. pad debate.
I was very excited, lying there in the carpet, at the notion that now it might be my turn. I ended up sticking it out for the whole film, which I still feel is quite an accomplishment—it was a very long movie, there is a lot that happened in 14th century China. After a trip to the girls’ bathroom and a harrowing experience with the pad dispenser, I got on the school bus to go home, excited to tell my mother the news. I expected a lot from that talk. I expected secrets to be revealed, meanings to be exposed, and to emerge somehow closer to my mother and her adult world. I remember beaming as she sat me down on her bed with a package of pads and launched into a similar version of the talk she had given my friend. But about five or ten minutes into it, her then-boyfriend got home from work and walked into the bedroom. She looked at me, handed me the package, and nothing more was said. My first period remained an event shared only by the Mings and me.
—Aliza Shvarts, Los Angeles, CA
Aliza is an Art major at Yale
TallDave | April 17, 2008, 2:46pm | #
I won’t forget the Ming Dynasty, for it was to the noise of their clashing swords that I became a woman.Wow, I thought this was going somewhere entirely different.
I'm skeptical she's ever "become a woman."
The Wine Commonsewer | April 17, 2008, 2:46pm | #
Tall One: The photo link is upthread. Oh this is easier:http://cache.jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
Parachuter:
Bet her Mom is soooo oooohh proud!
the OverKiller | April 17, 2008, 2:48pm | #
I wonder if she is taking commissions. I would like to see something in poop, or bile, for the game room.Elemenope | April 17, 2008, 2:48pm | #
Well, she's not a *terrible* writer. Thanks for the not-quite-illuminating Google gold, DB.The Wine Commonsewer | April 17, 2008, 2:48pm | #
XXX, sociopath, sure, illegal? I dunno. If it was 100 years ago we could just run her out of town. But now we're civilized.Bronwyn, loved the family photo.
JLE | April 17, 2008, 2:49pm | #
It's too literal to be art. Art is supposed to be representation of reality rather than intentional enactment of that reality. Otherwise, it's just life.RU486 happens. That's life, not art.
TallDave | April 17, 2008, 2:49pm | #
You know the difference between a pregnant woman and a light bulb?You can't put RU-486 in a light bulb.
dbcooper | April 17, 2008, 2:49pm | #
TWC, one can only imagine.Damn, this is just what I needed with a progress report distracting me from the web.
My prediction? In a week or so, she will "reveal" that it was all a fake, and the "art" was really about the nature of controvery in the modern age or some such ting.
old geezer | April 17, 2008, 2:50pm | #
Who the fuck raised this child!?Mad Max | April 17, 2008, 2:51pm | #
"This woman has Issues."What makes you jump so hastily to *that* conclusion?
Look, even though I'm pro-life, I would like to offer some disinterested advice to the pro-abortion crowd: Don't repudiate this eloquent artist - affirm her work and emulate it! Only by confonting sexist/patriarchai/chauvinist Amerikkka will you be able to make them truly convert to your viewpoint.
R C Dean | April 17, 2008, 2:52pm | #
Does it occur to anyone that she didn't even have to do any of the things she claimed.If the raison d/etre of your "art" is shock, and the shock comes only from your emissions containing actual fertilized ova, I think we need some kind of proof that said ova were actually present.
PC | April 17, 2008, 2:53pm | #
bside | April 17, 2008, 2:12pm | #Yes in some cases drawing attention is an important aspect to achieve a goal, but it is usually done to advertise a certain product or service that possesses some other value, which is an aspect of marketing. Shitting on a cross or splattering fetus parts on a canvas doesn't strike me as art, it merely provokes an emotional backlash. I didn't think that the "art" was very artistic, all I saw was shock value. That strikes me as shallow and talentless. Many works of art should grab attention, a few are more subtle and hide their profundity, but it should do more than just grab attention only. There are parts to a whole when discussing most things and regarding art as you somewhat elaborated on. Concerning the artistic merit of this lady and her discharge, the other parts of the whole of art as missing. The hypothetical man creating an image of a dog sounds like he is making art that serves a purpose, of a much more utilitarian nature, to give someone pleasure and to cover up empty space. Now I do not see an image of a dog as profound art but art nonetheless.
Episiarch | April 17, 2008, 2:53pm | #
I'd like to point out that:1. Whether she is an attention whore or, as Fluffy (sort of) contends, she did it to highlight the line between being ok with abortion and not...is irrelevant. Because even if she is just an attention whore, she still inadvertently highlighted that line.
2. If you have no problem with abortion, you should not have a problem with this. Morgan Spurlock abused his body for SuperSize Me; was that wrong too?
3. I have zero problem with what she did. It's her body, she can abuse it at will.
(I actually dig just how disgusting it all is--it really appeals to my horror movie sensibilities)
Guy Montag | April 17, 2008, 2:54pm | #
TWC,Shvarts is not only full of shit, she is lying. Otherwise the artwork would be on display in her very private garage.
If she becomes a Yale grad and she shows a skill for lying, then she will probably be on the staff of The New Republic for her first "real" job.
Timmy Mac | April 17, 2008, 2:58pm | #
Does it surprise anyone that she is from L.A.?Not after I saw her dressed in Poison's hand-me downs, it doesn't.
Guy Montag | April 17, 2008, 2:59pm | #
Is she in Skull & Bones?jackal the carlos | April 17, 2008, 3:00pm | #
It's not art. It's entertainment. I think it's high time for the ultimate act of gross-out fun times : Dead Baby Pudding.The article said that the installation included video of the miscarriages. If that means that the viewer is treated to the miscarriages actually happening, I suppose that would be proof she's not lying.
Neil | April 17, 2008, 3:07pm | #
"If she becomes a Yale grad and she shows a skill for lying, then she will probably be on the staff of The New Republic for her first "real" job."LOL Montag wins the thread yet again!!
Bronwyn | April 17, 2008, 3:09pm | #
As someone who experienced a miscarriage at 8* weeks, I can tell you it isn't pretty and it's exceptionally painful.I wonder how long she allowed these pregnancies to go before she induced the abortions.
If she waited 10 or 12 weeks*, there would be something visibly embryonic in the efflux. Earlier than that, and it's pretty much nothing more than a massively messy and painful period.
To the naked eye, anyway.
*LMP weeks, subtract two if you want fetal age.
AccordionCowboy | April 17, 2008, 3:09pm | #
Just another case of Ivy League plagiarism...Aliza Shvarts stole my work!!! http://moxie.nu/moveabletype/archives/003837.php
Bingo | April 17, 2008, 3:14pm | #
So since the consensus by some folks is that this is art, what isn't art?Because maybe I can get a performance art grant for sitting on my ass refreshing HnR.
Guy Montag | April 17, 2008, 3:14pm | #
She looks like her closet threw up on her.Maybe it is just a ploy to get on What not to Wear? Or Geraldo at Large?
tk | April 17, 2008, 3:14pm | #
Timmy Mac | April 17, 2008, 2:50pm | #My prediction? In a week or so, she will "reveal" that it was all a fake, and the "art" was really about the nature of controvery in the modern age or some such ting.
I think you nailed it. The controversy that is being generated will be the "real" art project. Kind of a meta-performance art piece. And she will then be hailed for her genius, go on to get her MFA, get hired on Yale's faculty, get tenure, and brainwash a whole new brood of narcissistic littles putzes and release them upon the world.
dbcooper | April 17, 2008, 3:15pm | #
Because maybe I can get a performance art grant for sitting on my ass refreshing HnR.Well shit, that's what my grant's paying for right now.
shecky | April 17, 2008, 3:18pm | #
If you have no problem with abortion, you should not have a problem with this.Safe, legal, and rare. Yeah, I can see lots of pro choice folks being upset by this.
Art/entertainment, is there necessarily a difference?
I think it's a pretty good stunt, if for no other reason that it's so easy to fake, and still jerk around all the usual suspects. Truly shocking things were a dime a dozen, and the bottom has fallen out of the market.
The article said that the installation included video of the miscarriages. If that means that the viewer is treated to the miscarriages actually happening, I suppose that would be proof she's not lying.
How does anyone know it wasn't just a period? Or even better, more along the lines of the worlds longest turd. (NSFW)
http://intermaweb.net/index.php/2005/10/29/world-record-4-peristaltic-action/
bside | April 17, 2008, 3:18pm | #
Bingo -What is or isn't art is a pretty useless question. It doesn't get you anywhere. If she intends it as art, then it's art. Big deal. Then what? The real question is, is it any good? That can be answered with some level of certainty and actually has a point.
smacky | April 17, 2008, 3:24pm | #
So if I placed a flaming bag of poo on the steps of the US Capitol to send a "message" could I get a diploma from Yale?No, but if you get a bunch of drunken friends together at a national monument to do the Charleston, you can foment a worldwide political movement against petty tyranny.
SugarFree | April 17, 2008, 3:26pm | #
"boys used to tell me I looked like an "ugly man" in 7th grade b/c I had short hair, small breasts and didn't shave my legs."And things have changed how?
jackal the carlos | April 17, 2008, 3:27pm | #
In all seriousness . . . this is lame. Just another dipshit femicommie trying to score brownie points with the Ivy League radicals. Alas, this is our system of higher education.