The Weekly Standard's Worst Nightmare
Comments to "The Weekly Standard's Worst Nightmare":
jimmydageek | November 28, 2007, 11:10am | #
That guy looks pissed that the wedding won't be taking place as planned...Nancy Pelosi | November 28, 2007, 11:14am | #
Once again Iraq's need for a uniform, comprehensive and consistent ruling on what constitutes "marriage" is demonstrated. Loving couples should not be forced to move to Syria to enjoy this basic human right. This Administration continues to turn a deaf ear on their plight.Chucklehead | November 28, 2007, 11:22am | #
You can't top your first post, sixstring. Well done.Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 11:23am | #
While this story is amusing, why the blackout on the big story of the day? The Muslim Riots in France?They're now saying that it's worse than 2005. Shots have been fired by Urban Guerillas backed by Hezzbolah.
The rioting has spread to Toulouse in the south of France.
And still, complete silence at Reason and other libertarian websites.
I guess that "non-intervenionist" line actually means hide your head in the sand and pretend that Islamo-Fascism doesn't even exist, even when they're burning down Paris.
squarooticus | November 28, 2007, 11:27am | #
"Non-interventionist" means not getting involved in other countries' problems. That includes France. Alliances ultimately cause nothing but problems.Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 11:28am | #
Eric Dondero,Paris isn't burning down; the situation there has abated to some degree.
Episiarch | November 28, 2007, 11:29am | #
I guess that "non-intervenionist" line actually means hide your head in the sand and pretend that Islamo-Fascism doesn't even exist, even when they're burning down Paris.I wasn't aware we were responsible for the frogs' internal problems. Besides, the French will eventually handle this in their way (think Algeria); when the hammer finally comes down, it'll come down hard.
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 11:35am | #
Eric Dondero,Also, you do you realize that the rioting "in Paris" is in suburbs that lay about ~15 miles from the city center, right?
Right Eric. Because we can't afford to ignore the threat Parisian Muslims represent to American security. What this country needs is a leader with the balls to unilaterally bomb Paris back to the stone age, and a Press that will report the facts that make it necessary.
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 11:39am | #
Urban GuerillasLike the ones we had here in the 60s? Just curious?
fyodor | November 28, 2007, 11:43am | #
Like the ones we had here in the 60s?African-Americo-fascists, obviously.
Cesar | November 28, 2007, 11:48am | #
Eric, Muslims (and really, immigrants period) don't riot in America. Thats because theres this thing called "assimilation" that Europeans suck at.Here, its our native-born citizens that riot. I guess the '91 L.A. riots were caused by Hizbollah, too?
lunchstealer | November 28, 2007, 11:49am | #
Umm, the silence isn't exactly completeBut they're not significantly dissimilar from just about any of the riots the US has seen in the last 20 years. Economically and socially isolated people with dramatically higher unemployment rates than the surrounding population tend to be prone to riots. Happens anywhere.
It's a big story, but it's pretty ambiguous from a libertarian standpoint, pro-defense or otherwise.
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 11:53am | #
I blame it on socialism. Cut off the social programs from all (Muslim and otherwise), and let them get off their behinds and earn a living. If they do not, they loose and would not have an excuse to rebel. Socialism's blowback shows itself, first, among the weakest members of society.Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 11:57am | #
Cesar,If the violence associated historically with immigrants (as often as not directed against them by "natives"*) in U.S. history is any indication we aren't any better at assimilation than Europeans are.
*In the 19th century the irony was that it was as often as not English-speaking protestant immigrants who were most opposed to Irish, etc. immigrants.
So, the story seems to imply that this was an incompetent attempt to sneak these baddies past checkpoints. But is it really that hard for bush league baddies to sneak through US checkpoints that they have to steal scripts from Bennie Hill?
J sub D | November 28, 2007, 12:11pm | #
If the "bride" were successful, what sex would the 72 virgins in heaven be?I'm thinking she-male. But then, I'm a perv.
thoreau | November 28, 2007, 12:12pm | #
The rioting in France was over alleged police misconduct in the death of 2 teens. Now, even if the allegations are true that still doesn't excuse violence and destruction of property. Still, rioting over alleged police misconduct is very different from some sort of global conspiracy to establish a Wahabi Caliphate that DONDEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fears.On the subject of the post: Like Eric the 0.5b said at another blog, if you're going to pose as a bride to get through a checkpoint, it helps if you shave.
Chucklehead | November 28, 2007, 12:13pm | #
What does Islam say about cross-dressing?David | November 28, 2007, 12:15pm | #
You guys are missing Eric's point. Any disturbance involving a Muslim anywhere in the world is terrorism and thus of vital importance to US national security.Car stolen by a Muslim? You're now a victim of "teh Terrorism". The only way to be adequately compensated is to carpet-bomb a village in some faraway country.
David | November 28, 2007, 12:17pm | #
On the subject of the post: Like Eric the 0.5b said at another blog, if you're going to pose as a bride to get through a checkpoint, it helps if you shave.Or at least claim to be Sicilian.
thoreau | November 28, 2007, 12:17pm | #
David-What if one of the US military personnel involved in the carpet bombing is also a Muslim? Do we have to carpet bomb somebody else's village as well, then?
thoreau | November 28, 2007, 12:21pm | #
What this country needs is a leader with the balls to unilaterally bomb Paris back to the stone ageSo, a German for President?
Cesar | November 28, 2007, 12:21pm | #
If the violence associated historically with immigrants (as often as not directed against them by "natives"*) in U.S. history is any indication we aren't any better at assimilation than Europeans are.I speak of recent history. Most riots since around 1920 or so have been of the black vs. white variety.
The Democratic Republican | November 28, 2007, 12:22pm | #
I agree with thoreau and David: If Donderoooo would stop wetting himself long enough to use his brain, perhaps he would wonder why he assumes that a large group of Muslims necessarily = terrorists. I guess the blacks who rioted in the '60s were terrorists, too...?Eric is the classic name-dropping conspiracy theorist: "they" say it's worse than 2005. "they" think Islamowhatevers are a problem. Which "they" said anything about Hezbollah being involved? The same "they" that wants to go to war in Iran? Is this the same "they" that appeared to Denny Kucinich in the UFO?
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 12:24pm | #
BTW, one of those Chinese muslims has made it to Sweden.The Democratic Republican | November 28, 2007, 12:24pm | #
I'm sorry, that last part was unfair. I find Kucinich to be a decent human being and it was wrong to compare him to you-know-who.David | November 28, 2007, 12:27pm | #
What if one of the US military personnel involved in the carpet bombing is also a Muslim? Do we have to carpet bomb somebody else's village as well, then?If we're going to follow the Dondero Doctrine correctly, I think we do. We also have to watch every interaction between Muslims as well. An argument at the market that ends in a fistfight (possibly even overly harsh words) may be considering terrorism, with both parties villages being bombed. You can't be too careful with this sort of menace.
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 12:29pm | #
Cesar,It is all a matter of contingency.
thoreau,
The Germans had their chance in WWII.
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 12:36pm | #
The Democratic Republican,FWIW:
A senior police union official warned "urban guerrillas" had joined the unrest, saying the violence was worse than during three weeks of rioting that raged around French cities in 2005, when firearms were rarely used.
I predict that this event will be used by wingnuts to retroactively justify all of the mass slaughters American forces have executed against wedding parties in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001.
I'm here all week. | November 28, 2007, 12:56pm | #
If the "bride" were successful, what sex would the 72 virgins in heaven be?Arab.
Dangerman | November 28, 2007, 12:58pm | #
I'm thinking she-male. But then, I'm a perv.J sub D: Please report to the other thread. We have an ankle bracelet for you.
J sub D | November 28, 2007, 1:00pm | #
What this country needs is a leader with the balls to unilaterally bomb Paris back to the stone ageWe had Eisenhower and he didn't do it.So, a German for President?
Hal | November 28, 2007, 1:00pm | #
"Alliances ultimately cause nothing but problems."Translation, never marry.
Bronwyn | November 28, 2007, 1:00pm | #
I hope the bride gets her deposit back from the photographer and stylist.Yeesh. It's like they weren't even trying.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:04pm | #
You do realize that there are reports today that the rioting has now spread to Toulouse in the south of France, right?Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:06pm | #
Imagine for a second the French saying the same thing in 1775:"We shouldn't get involved in America's Wars against England. None of our business..."
If the French were "non-interventionists" in 1775, We'd be all talking with cockney accents today, obssessed with the Beatles, and bowing down to the Queen.
J sub D | November 28, 2007, 1:07pm | #
You do realize that there are reports today that the rioting has now spread to Toulouse in the south of France, right?Actually, I'm still waiting for more info on the Islam-fascist/Oklahoma City bombing connection, Eric. Any updates?
Isaac Bartram | November 28, 2007, 1:08pm | #
What this country needs is a leader with the balls to unilaterally bomb Paris back to the stone age, and a Press that will report the facts that make it necessary.Where're Teddy Roosevelt and the Hearst papers when you need them?
Episiarch | November 28, 2007, 1:09pm | #
You do realize that there are reports today that the rioting has now spread to Toulouse in the south of France, right?Well, then there's no time Toulouse! Send in the Marines!
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:12pm | #
No David, my point is that what happens to our allies in France, the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, and Great Britain, can certainly happen here.In fact, it already has:
Beltway Sniper John Muhammed, Seattle Shooter at the Jewish Community Center, LAX Terrorist, crazed Muslim SUV driver at UNC, Salt Lake City Mall Shooter, and the Fort Dix Six.
There is a coordinated attack on the West from the Muslim Terrorists: Everything from Theo van Gogh being brutally murdered to the protests against Danish Cartoonists, to today's Muslim riots on the Streets of Paris.
Bury your head in the sand if you like.
But just remember this:
One of the victims of Beltway Sniper John Muhammed was the wife of the State Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Alabama. (The Birmingham liquor store shooting. She barely survived and is paralyzed for life. But her co-worker was killed.)
Kinda hits close to home now doesn't it?
Why are you so worried about the frogs anyway, Eric? They can handle this. It's not like it's Germans rioting or something.
David | November 28, 2007, 1:14pm | #
You do realize that there are reports today that the rioting has now spread to Toulouse in the south of France, right?So we should do what exactly? Bomb Egypt? Invade France? Conclude that these riots are definitive proof that all Muslims are evil and bent on global domination?
thoreau | November 28, 2007, 1:16pm | #
A Muslim guy asked me if I could teach his class for him while he's at a seminar. I think he's just trying to distract me.And then there's the Arab student who did badly on a lab report. Probably just a ploy to make me underestimate their true strengths.
And don't even get me started on the sub-par salmon I had at this Middle Eastern place in DC. Or the Middle Eastern restaurant owner who tried to inflict second hand houka smoke on me. Dude obviously wants to give me cancer.
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 1:17pm | #
Yeesh. It's like they weren't even trying.That is the only rational thing mentioned on this thread. And the funniest too.
SugarFree | November 28, 2007, 1:19pm | #
Well, then there's no time Toulouse!Aw, come on. I just finished lunch.
Anyone else get the idea that Eric would just love another 9/11 level event? Would that be yummy, Eric? Would little dondero finally get hard again?
NotThatDavid | November 28, 2007, 1:19pm | #
It's not the Weekly Standard's worst nightmare until one of them gets an abortion.Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 1:19pm | #
Eric Dondero,Le Figaro:
En dehors de la région parisienne, un début d’incendie d’une bibliothèque a été rapidement maîtrisé dans le quartier de la Reynerie, à Toulouse.
If the French were "non-interventionists" in 1775...
Well, they actually were non-interventionists in 1775. The U.S. had to prove its ability to win (e.g., Saratoga) before the French formally intervened. And they did so as much for the sake of national interest as anything.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:20pm | #
J sub D.Read Jayna Davis' book "The Third Terrorist: The Muslim Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing." It was a NY Times Best Seller 4 years ago. The book was endorsed by former CIA Director James Woolsey. Davis appeared on numerous national media, including O'Reilly. Glen Beck talked about the book for days on his show.
Jayna was the very first reporter on the scene immediately after the bombing. She was the Investigative Reporter for CBS News-OKC.
She documents extensively Terry Nichol's 5 visits to the southern Philipines the year before the bombing to meet with Muslim radicals.
She also presents strong evidence that these radicals were being backed by Iraqi Intelligence.
Also, Google State Rep. Charles Keys (R-OK). Keys held extensive hearings on the issue of the Muslim Terrorist connection to OKC in the late 1990s.
Couple interesting items since:
Remember Zacarias Mousawi? The 20th 9/11 Bomber? Turns out he befriended Nicolas Berg (the guy who had his head cut off in Iraq cause he was "there on business" back in 2004), in of all places OKLAHOMA CITY! Mousawi even used his laptop.
Then there was the strange case of the OU Bomber. Remember the kid who sat on the bench at the OU game and tried to blow himself up?
Everything points back to Oklahoma City.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:22pm | #
Yup, thanks for posting that Sylon. It's spreading to Toulouse. Can Marseilles be far behind? If it spreads to Marseilles watch out. The whole country will go up in flames.thoreau | November 28, 2007, 1:24pm | #
Eric-If teh islamofascists are taking over France, clearly the only thing we can do is invade Portugal. The Portuguese don't actually have anything to do with it, but we need to show our resolve.
Eric, 0 people have died so far. Compare this to any riot of your pick in the United States were dozens if not over a hundered people die.
David | November 28, 2007, 1:25pm | #
But just remember this:One of the victims of Beltway Sniper John Muhammed was the wife of the State Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Alabama. (The Birmingham liquor store shooting. She barely survived and is paralyzed for life. But her co-worker was killed.)
Kinda hits close to home now doesn't it?
No, it really doesn't. If John Allen Muhammad were an undercover al Qaeda operative rather than a random nutjob, it might.
What you can't or won't reconcile yourself to is that sometimes individuals or small groups are capable of committing horrible atrocities without it being tied to a larger conspiracy. Now, it might be easier to think that laying waste to some country will keep you safe from evil in your midst, but it won't.
R C Dean | November 28, 2007, 1:25pm | #
the mass slaughters American forces have executed against wedding parties in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001.I remember one or two initial reports of such, but I also recall them being disputed. Did any of them pan out?
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:25pm | #
Sugar-free, we've already had a number of mini-9/11s all over the country, from Seattle to New Jersey, from Salt Lake City to South Florida. It's just the liberal media is deliberately ignoring the stories and all the connections. They're playing it off as "random incidents of disgruntled non-ethnicity affiliated individuals."Did you know that the Salt Lake City shooter last year, lined his victims up, 5 of them in a Giftstore inside the Mall, and shot each of them in the back of the head one by one. As the cops stormed in, before he put a bullet in his own brain he shouted "Allahu-Ahkbar, Allahu-Ahkbar."
What else were the Muslims behind Dondero? Next you're going to tell us t hey were behind the Haymarket Bombing, too.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:29pm | #
David, then why do they all shout to Allah, right before their killings?As for Muhammed, the media dropped the story like a led balloon as soon as it was discovered that he was Muslim. No investigative reports into his mysterious ties in Jamaica to "radical groups." They played it off like he was just a "disturbed individual."
It was even worse with the Seattle shooter. The Seattle papers, hardly even mentioned the fact that he was Muslim.
And today we see the SAME EXACT THING happening media-wide. Look at all the news reports coming out of Paris. They describe the rioters as "North African immigrants."
Pro Libertate | November 28, 2007, 1:29pm | #
There's that kid who flew a plane into a building in Tampa. He mentioned bin Laden in his suicide note, I believe.Rimfax | November 28, 2007, 1:30pm | #
For general reference, Wikipedia: Category: Racially motivated violence in the United States.Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 1:30pm | #
Eric,A library was set on fire and quickly doused. The quotation doesn't mention that a dozen or so cars were torched.
Cesar,
In 2005, I think one person was killed. The major symbol of the violence was the torching of cars. About 9,000 cars went up in flames.
thoreau | November 28, 2007, 1:31pm | #
Can we get back to the disturbingly bad seasoning on that salmon that I had at a Middle Eastern restaurant in DC?It's no coinkydink that this happened in DC, which is next to Maryland, which is where the Beltway sniper did his deeds.
Guy Fawkes yelled "bin Laden ruleZz!" just before he was arrested. And wasn't Benedict Arnold a Muslim? They don't like to mention that in the history books, do they?
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:33pm | #
Cesar, can you explain to me why it is that there's virtually zero discussion anywheres in any libertarian forums or sites, about the wife of the Alabama LP State Chair being shot by John Muhammed? When it happened in 2002, there was like a little mention of it in LP News. Some talk of it in Alabama Libertarian Party circles. And that was it!!This is one of the hugest stories in the last 4 to 5 years affecting the libertarian movement. And it's been completely swept under the rug.
And nowadays, it's almost completely forgotten about.
You see, it doesn't fit the non-interventionist hide-your-head-in-the-sand Anti-War Libertarian template. It was an embarrassment for Anti-War Libertarians. They don't want to talk about it at all. They just want to pretend like it never happened. Cause if they talk about it, then someone will say, "well, maybe we should do something about Radical Muslims."
And that my friend, is when the problems start to come in for the Anti-War Libertarians.
You see, they have to pretend that Radical Islam does not exist. If they acknowledge it, they're screwed.
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 1:34pm | #
Rimfax,Something I found out a few weeks ago was that lynching was almost as common in the Gilded Age and the Progressive Era against hispanics and Italians as it was against blacks.
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 1:35pm | #
Can we get back to the disturbingly bad seasoning on that salmon that I had at a Middle Eastern restaurant in DC?Those damned terrorists. They hijacked our restaurants and our appetite. How rude!
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:35pm | #
Thoreau, correct:The Beltway Sniper did some of his deeds in Maryland and Virginia. But he also shot two people in Alabama, killing one, and golfer in Arizona, killing him, as well. In fact, they have only learned of the AZ killing a year ago. Turns out, the poor guy was the very first victim of John Muhammed.
URKOBOLD's Vet | November 28, 2007, 1:36pm | #
DOKTOR T PAYS THE PRICE OF NOT ORDERING THE CAMEL. THAT IS THE MNG-APPROVED ISLAMOFASCIST ANALOG TO USA!USA!USA! HORSEMAYBE IF DUNDEROO WEREN'T SUCH A COWARD AND ACTUALLY SERVED HIS COUNTRY IN A USEFUL CAPACITY, HIS FEAR OF THE "OTHER" WOULD DISAPPEAR.
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 1:36pm | #
Eric Dondero,You see, they have to pretend that Radical Islam does not exist.
Radical Islam exists. I still think the invasion of Iraq was a dumb idea.
SugarFree | November 28, 2007, 1:36pm | #
mini-9/11s?So those were just mini-erections then? Half hard?
Your wet dream of perpetual war sounds as hard on my pocketbook as the liberal-trolls social programs. But it is quite fascinating, do go on. Maybe you and Newt Gingrich can collaborate on a novel.
As an aside... reflect on how many people encounter Eric and think all libertarians are Muslim-obsessed war-pornographers? Great. Blue guy and Eric, our ambassadors to mainstream culture. Awesome.
In 1871, The liberal media deliberately obscured the role of Mrs al Ehri in the Chicago Fire, pretending both that she was Irish and that it was really a cow's fault.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:37pm | #
In 2005, an elderly woman was torched and severely burned on a bus in a Paris suburb by the Muslim Rioters. I can't recall if she was the one who eventually died. But yes, there was one confirmed murder in the 2005 riots.What's different now is that they're shooting at the cops.
A mini 9/11 is a car accident where one of the drivers is a muslim.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:39pm | #
Well, I respect your view then Sylos. But what is your proposal for dealing with it?I'm not one of those who thinks Fortress America will work: You know, put our troops on the borders, and wait for the Radical Muslims to take over Northern Mexico, and start lobbing missiles across from Matamoros to Brownsville. Not my idea of a good response to the threat.
Eric, you forgot to mention that the general who led the Thai coup is a Muslim. A military coup is an event without precedent in Thailand, and it was obviously started by this Muslim general because he hates Thailand's long tradition of freedom.
joe | November 28, 2007, 1:39pm | #
There is a coordinated attack on the West from the Muslim Terrorists: Everything from Theo van Gogh being brutally murdered to the protests against Danish Cartoonists, to today's Muslim riots on the Streets of Paris.Eric Dondero's conspiratorial paranoia would sound familiar to anyone who has ever talked politics with Middle Easterners.
It's all connected, man. It's all part of the same conspiracy. Except instead of Zionists and Americans, he talks about Islamists and Middle Easterners.
The only thing connecting these riots with the Danish cartoons is the tendency of people like Eric to thin that all those people look alike, and his need - common among conspiracy theorists, to have a Single Grand Theory of Everything to provide a cohesive narrative that makes the evil in the world look less chaotic.
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 1:39pm | #
Eric Dondero,Actually, there was some use of guns against the cops in 2005 as well.
I have a question: do you think that some plan or conspiracy was/is behind either the 2005 civil unrest or the current unrest?
You know that the Muslims were behind the Holocaust, too. Hitler was quoted as saying, "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity." You can't make it any more obvious than that. You don't think that Rommel was in Egypt just to disrupt Allied oil supplies do you? And don't forget that the swastika came from Jainism, and where do a lot of Jains live? Pakistan! You see, how it all fits together.
Dondero, were the Muslims also behind the Christmas ice storm a few years back? What about when my computer got a virus, was that an IslamicPlot too? What about the Virtual Boy?
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 1:41pm | #
Eric Dondero,Or are the events organic and largely self-organized in nature? Rooted in the poverty and alienation of the banlieus?
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 1:42pm | #
Eric Dondero,What evidence do have for this? Aren't the terrible living conditions that the rioters live in enough of an explanation? If not, why not?
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:43pm | #
Joe, then what was Terry Nichols doing in the Southern Phillipines in 1994?He didn't visit the P.I. just once but FIVE TIMES IN ONE YEAR!!!
Now, I've been to the P.I. on numerous occasions in the Navy. And every single American who ever goes there knows that there's only one rule, and one rule only:
YOU NEVER EVER GO TO THE SOUTHERN PHILLIPINES OR YOU WILL BE KILLED BY MUSLIM GANGS.
Obviously, Nichols must have had some sort of "protection" to say the least to be able to go there.
Rhywun | November 28, 2007, 1:44pm | #
When I first saw this, I thought the guy could remove his dress and become the new guitarist for Pearl Jam or something.Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 1:44pm | #
Er, banlieues.joe | November 28, 2007, 1:45pm | #
Kids from an ethnic minority in poor neighborhoods turning violent after two of them are killed by the police?Obviously, the only explaination for this is a global theocratic conspiracy. This is not other plausible motivation that they could have, as only theocratic Muslims have ever engaged in such behavior.
adrian | November 28, 2007, 1:46pm | #
dondero: it's obvious you want a war against islam, so why don't we start here in the US where it would be pretty easy to round them all up and kill em. This is something even you can do super-patriot. Hitler (Godwin!) started the cleansing in his own country which seems like a smart way to start.-adrian
thoreau | November 28, 2007, 1:46pm | #
joe-How do you explain the fact that a Middle Eastern restaurant in DC served me salmon that was too sweet? It must be a theocratic conspiracy.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:46pm | #
Syloson,Have you been to Europe? I have, on numerous occasions. I speak fluent Spanish, Italian, French and Portuguese. And my German passes muster.
If you've been around Europe you'd know that numerous Christian and Secular Spaniards, Italians, French, Portuguese and Germans live in squalor conditions.
Shit man. Go to Northwest Italy around Ventimiglia. Hell, go to some parts of Niece. Or, Barcelona.
It's not just Muslims who live in poverty.
You don't see native French, Italians and Spaniards rioting and shooting at the police cause of "their conditions" now do you?
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 1:47pm | #
joe,Well, both periods of unrest were sparked by the death of youths who had some sort of encounter with the police.
I guess the FBI and ATF are part of the Great Muslim Conspiracy, too, since they have spent thousands of man-hours invesitating the OKC bombing and have not issued a single statement implicating any Muslims.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:48pm | #
No Adrian, there are many patriotic Muslim Americans.But what I would heartily endorse, is ROUNDING UP ALL THE GODDAMNED MIDDLE-EASTERNERS ON OUR COLLEGE CAMPUSES AND AT MOSQUES NATIONWIDE WHO HAVE OVERSTAYED THEIR VISAS!!!
thoreau | November 28, 2007, 1:48pm | #
Syloson,Ooh, I can't wait for the atomic bitchslap that you're about to get, Eric.
Have you been to Europe?
Have at him, Syloson. And Vive Le France! FWIW, the thing I miss most about my old job is sharing an office with a French scientist. He had a unique sense of humor.
Rimfax | November 28, 2007, 1:49pm | #
[T]he wife of the Alabama LP State Chair being shot by John Muhammed?...This is one of the hugest stories in the last 4 to 5 years affecting the libertarian movement. And it's been completely swept under the rug.Okay, you've officially jumped the budong as far as I'm concerned.
joe | November 28, 2007, 1:50pm | #
thoreau,I'm going to go out on a limb, and suggest that the restaurants in Washington, DC suck.
Ah, says the insightful Dondero, but WHY do they suck? I ask you, who would benefit from our political leadership eating poorly?
That's right.
Dondero is the type of person that would think Muslims were even behind the Virginia Tech shootings. And Columbine. And the attempted assassination of Reagan right Dondi? And did they also kill JFK?
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:52pm | #
Joe, that was the Clinton Administration FBI and BATF.Think about it for a second. Think how convenient it was for Clinton and Reno to just pin it on a couple of "libertarian-minded Rightwing Crazy, moderately racist gun nights."
Remember that was the era of David Koresh, and the Idaho Shooting. That was the era of the Michigan Militia, the Montana Freemen and the Republic of Texas.
Remember how that all came to an end overnight when OKC hit? Remember how that gave the Feds the go ahead to start investigating all those "Right-wing crazy gun-nut groups"?
Just a coincidence that McVeigh's license plate was crooked and hanging off on one screw immediately after the bombing, that allowed that OK State Trooper to pull him over?
I have a friend who knows McVeigh's lawyer Steven Jones. And let me tell you, there is so much there that Jones knows, that the media has never reported on the story. The cover-up on OKC is absolutely frightening.
And here we are about to put another Clinton in the White House.
Pro Libertate | November 28, 2007, 1:53pm | #
joe,You go too far. There are some very good restaurants in D.C. I demand a retraction!
Wait, no I don't. Libel them all you want.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:53pm | #
Cesar, no, I do not think there's any connection to any of the crimes you mentioned above.VM | November 28, 2007, 1:53pm | #
*Pulls up chair next to joe and Doktor T.**still wonders why DUNDEROO is such a coward who never served his country in a useful way*
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 1:54pm | #
Eric Dondero,"Native French" (whoever the heck they are - keep in mind that France is as much a nation of immigrants as many countries are) do riot actually and it is common enough.
2006 riots.
J sub D | November 28, 2007, 1:54pm | #
Eric Dondero -You are insane. You need help. Seek it!
Reasonoids, should I assemble Dondero's terrorism posts from H&R, E-mail them to the Guiliani campaign and ask for an official response? I'm serious.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:56pm | #
VM, served 4 years in the US Navy, 1981-85. Two Persian Gulf Tours and One Pacific aboard the USS Kittywayk CV-63 and the Guided Missile Destroyer USS Luce DDG-38.3 medals including Expeditionary for service in a War Zone.
Today, American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars member.
Also, 20-year Fed Appointee to the Selective Service Board-Houston Region.
joe | November 28, 2007, 1:57pm | #
Eric,One of the reasons you are incapable of understanding the world is because you assume that knowing a political narrative is useful in understanding events.
And let me get this straight - you are willing to assign off this blame based on your understanding of someone's self-interest, but find the word of a defendant's defense attorney to be beyond question?
Russ R | November 28, 2007, 1:57pm | #
Bet that Korean kid who went on the shooting rampage in Virginia was a Muslim too. Of course the media just claimed he was a disturbed individual.But look at the evidence: Korean... Koran... Way too close to be just a coincidence.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:58pm | #
J sub D, you are insane. I'm going to collect all your isolationist America-hating posts and send them off to Libertarian Party Headquarters in DC, and ask them, "Is this the type of person you want to be associated with?"joe | November 28, 2007, 1:58pm | #
Pro Libertate,You go too far. There are some very good restaurants in D.C. No, there aren't. You were just drunk.
Great bars. Lousy restaurants.
thoreau | November 28, 2007, 2:00pm | #
There are some good restaurants in DC, but they're never, ever reasonably priced.Bistro D'Oc is heavenly.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 2:01pm | #
Stop with the gobbly-gook Joe. Just answer the question.Do you think it was just a coincidence that Nichols visited the southern Phillipines 5 times before the OKC bombing?
Do you think it was just a coincidence that Tim McVeigh had his license plate on his vehicle unhinged immediately after the bombing?
Do you think that the 22 Eyewitnesses in downtown OKC who saw Tim McVeigh and an "Arab man" running away from the scene, INCLUDING AN OKLAHOMA CITY COUNCILMAN AND HIS TWO STAFFERS,
immediately after the bombing, were liars or blind?
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 2:01pm | #
BTW, I have some sympathy for the French students (though not for the actions of those involved in property damage, etc.).VM | November 28, 2007, 2:03pm | #
Hak - since DUNDEROOO is fluent in, like, 243 different languages, go ahead and keep posting articles en francais!and:
Onsdag den 28. november 2007, 19:03too bad DUNDEROO is a coward.
Franske internetbrugere i alderen 12 til 24 år er Europas mest flittige bloggere, viser en ny undersøgelse fra marketingskonsulentfirmaet Forrester, men unge svenskere overgår alle andre med hensyn til daglig brug af nettet. 88 pct. i alderen 12 til 24 er dagligt on-line mod et gennemsnit på 79 pct. i de syv lande, som er omfattet af undersøgelsen.
Undersøgelsen viser, at 72 procent af de unge franskmænd læser og sender kommentarer til blogs mindst en gang månedligt.
[...]
/ritzau/AFP
joe | November 28, 2007, 2:04pm | #
OK, Eric.You are a lunatic, and you demonstrate exactly the same eagerness to believe without evidence that which confirms your delusions, and stubborn denial of objective facts, that characterized conspiracy theorists and schizophrenics.
Eric, even if there was a Muslim connection to OKC, so what? We already got the message that there are some Muslims out there who would like to kill us. We've gotten it several times, in fact. How would an expose of Muslim connections to OKC change that?
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 2:05pm | #
Eric Dondero,Do you think that the 22 Eyewitnesses in downtown OKC who saw Tim McVeigh and an "Arab man" running away from the scene, INCLUDING AN OKLAHOMA CITY COUNCILMAN AND HIS TWO STAFFERS,
immediately after the bombing, were liars or blind?
People can be honestly mistaken about all sorts of things.
Ska | November 28, 2007, 2:05pm | #
Thoreau - Were you talking about Nizam earlier? I once ordered donner and those dirty bastards served me some weak ass shish kabob instead.GILMORE | November 28, 2007, 2:05pm | #
HmmRudy, dondero...
Where's Blitzen?
dude is such a cockbreath. Rioting in france has hardly been 'religiously' driven so much as 'class rioting' based partly on ethnic discrimination. The Hamas accusation is laughable. "Backed" by Hamas? What, they funded $10 for their .22 ammo? Announced, ' we are in solidarity with your irrational behavior'? This stinks like the people from Frontpage et al screaming that Arafat was behind 9/11 in days following. Everything had to fit into their existing mould. Anyone who is less impressed with their hysteria is just another cheese eating accomdating-appeaser. Yawn.
Please just shut up and go play with little green footballs or something you douche.
J sub D | November 28, 2007, 2:08pm | #
J sub D, you are insane.Made me smile, Dondi. Can I quote you (with attribution) on that? That way whoever disparages me in future on H&R threads will get the "Dondero thinks I'm insane" response with a link, to establish my credibility.
And please, send my "isolationist America-hating posts" wherever you like.
John D. Hannah, Detroit MI. aka J sub D.
VM | November 28, 2007, 2:08pm | #
"INCLUDING AN OKLAHOMA CITY COUNCILMAN AND HIS TWO STAFFERS,immediately after the bombing, were liars or blind?"
in their case, most likely liars.
I guess it's not a good time to bring up how Ghouliani went to a Mattress school in Rock-al-Way...
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 2:10pm | #
Eric: Seriously, on behalf of all moderate Muslims, we thank you! Yes, absolutely. You have managed to do what we can't do: Be able to to come up with arguments that makes others bring the best in their cognitive abilities to highlight the difference between the extremist Muslims, and the good Muslims, and between the extremist terrorist incidents (e.g., 9/11) and crimes committed by Muslims (e.g., Malvo in DC). So thank you sir. You are doing great service to this great country. And I am really being very sincere.The only disagreement is that you tend to conflate the real risk from terrorism with events that has nothing to do with terrorism. This will undermine the WoT (I am very serious) by fighting it in the wrong place.
GILMORE | November 28, 2007, 2:11pm | #
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:58pm | #J sub D, you are insane. I'm going to collect all your isolationist America-hating posts and send them off to Libertarian Party Headquarters in DC...
Wow. No capacity for irony...at all.
"i'm telling MOM!!!" What a fag.
Minion of URKOBOLD | November 28, 2007, 2:11pm | #
Hi, I'm Eric Stratton. Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet you.Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 2:14pm | #
VM,I heard a story once (which I have never confirmed) does illustrate how people can be quite honestly mistaken about what they see, remember, etc. Apparently in the 1970s or 1980s a panda was given to the Dutch for one of the zoos in the Netherlands. The panda, however, went missing and notice of such was sent out to the Dutch public. The panda was found (dead and near the facility as I recall) and before such was broadcast to the public hundreds of accounts of the missing panda's whereabouts (in varying geographic locations) were sent into the authorities.
Cesar | November 28, 2007, 2:15pm | #
Sylon-Its called "flashbulb memory". Traumatic events trigger them in the brain and they are often inaccurate or exagerated. Thats why the 9/11 conspiracy nuts are just wrong when they say BUT PEOPLE SAID IT WAS A MISSILE AT FIRST! Yes, they thought it was a missile, but it wasn't.
SugarFree | November 28, 2007, 2:17pm | #
Cesar,He wants names in case any of them are even slightly Muslim-ish. Then he can lump us in with his conspiracy.
GILMORE | November 28, 2007, 2:18pm | #
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 1:12pm | #
One of the victims of Beltway Sniper John Muhammed was the wife of the State Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Alabama. (The Birmingham liquor store shooting. She barely survived and is paralyzed for life. But her co-worker was killed.)
Kinda hits close to home now doesn't it?
If by "home" you mean do i live in Alabama or think that the sniper was targeting Known Libertarians, uhh.... no.
it's also conflating Nation of Islam derelicts with Qtubist international jihadists. Get a fricking grip homie. If anything you both have delusions of grandeur in common.
VikingMoose (today, I'm called Betty) | November 28, 2007, 2:19pm | #
Syloson -yes - there have been different studies about the lack of reliability of eyewitnesses in such situations. Another famous example is the "disruption" in a psych classroom, while someone in a gorilla suit walks across the stage, and nobody notices!
Cesar obviously knows more about this than I do! Thanks Cesar!!
It's was funny how the appeal of authority, even the Oklahoma city councilman, is so great that Rittenburg would cite that in ALL CAPS as extra proof. I guess it's the "flashbulb in the lower colon memory" that's working there.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 2:21pm | #
Ali, (see I used your real name this time),Thanks for the compliments. You do know I spend 9 months of my life in Bahrain. I loved the Bahraini people. I had a blast there. And I shit you not here. The rats on the docks in Manama, are as big as cats and small dogs!
Anyway, we must all strive to separate the Moderate Muslims from the Radicals. And as libertarians we all MUST DEFEND!!! Salmon Rushdie, Ayan Ali-Hassan, that Lesbian Muslim chic (what's her name?), and other brave Muslims who are defending Free Speech, Civil Liberties and Women's Rights worldwide.
I salute you Ali.
Dondero, if you hate Muslims so much then why on earth did you want to bring democracy to them, as we supposedly did in 2003 in Iraq? Why not let them suffer under a dictator? Do you think we should export democracy to the Middle East? If so, why should we let such people have elected governments, since according to you they are all clearly insane.
WikingerElch (kapierst?) | November 28, 2007, 2:22pm | #
LOOK, MOMMIE! A KOWARD!!!! AWIK IS A KOWARD!!! NEENER NEENER.Marcvs | November 28, 2007, 2:25pm | #
Shit, Dondero, you're right! Let's invade, because that's what the French did when the beltway sniper was running around!Oh, wait, you're just an idiot that doesn't like dark people, I forgot.
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 2:25pm | #
Lesbian Muslim chicIrshad Manji. Yeah, she's pretty.
I salute you Ali.
Thanks!
As I said before, I'd be willing to protect Ali, Rushdie, Manji, et al., but I also, in the spirit of freedom of speech, have every right to voice my concern about some of what they say (I am bery cool with Rushdie and Manji, not Ayan --she's a big wacko with a sad story). So would you grant to protect my right to free speech even if I disagree with you or them?
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 2:26pm | #
"bery"-->"very"SugarFree | November 28, 2007, 2:27pm | #
"The rats were huge! I loved it there!"Eric, your worldview is about the diameter of a quarter.
Run, iih, the voice of reason you are hearing is just your own echoing off buildings in the distance.
VM | November 28, 2007, 2:28pm | #
joe - I've got my DUNDEROO self-drawn "dirty sanchez" going (hier the reference), and some really hawt jackboots.And a freshly-ironed merkin.
A much more fun ensemble since changing my name from "Master Pain".
But gaiz - we should probably stop piling on DUNDEROO. I have a picture of him, and how he deals with ISLAMOFASCISTS: hier. I for one tremble in fear. Just look at the person he's, um, "getting".
thoreau | November 28, 2007, 2:30pm | #
I had a blast there. And I shit you not here. The rats on the docks in Manama, are as big as cats and small dogs!How big are the rats in the Tijuana "clubs" that you frequent, DONDEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 2:30pm | #
Eric, regarding Bahrain, you should check out Dubai too. I heard that they are buying 20% of Nasdaq and 30% of the London Stock exchange. Now that they come in peace and want to trade, should we shun then.GILMORE | November 28, 2007, 2:31pm | #
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 2:21pm | #I salute you Ali.
Why do i imagine a 'seig heil' type of salute?
Rhywun | November 28, 2007, 2:32pm | #
Remember that was the era of David Koresh, and the Idaho Shooting. That was the era of the Michigan Militia, the Montana Freemen and the Republic of Texas.*Sigh* I miss those days. Seriously.
SugarFree | November 28, 2007, 2:35pm | #
VM,You iron your merkins?!?
Pervert.
But gaiz - we should probably stop piling on DUNDEROO.
Probably... it is a bit like this.
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 2:41pm | #
VM,When you write "merkin" are you referring to a pubic wig?
Franklin Harris | November 28, 2007, 2:42pm | #
You don't see native French, Italians and Spaniards rioting and shooting at the police cause of "their conditions" now do you?Actually, yes. All the time. French farmers, anti-globalization demonstrators. People in Europe don't need much of an excuse to riot, what with all the free time so many of them have given the double-digit unemployment.
VM | November 28, 2007, 2:47pm | #
Hak - exactly.As found at what he claims to be effective methods of dealing with miniIslamoFascists.
Jennifer | November 28, 2007, 2:50pm | #
I have a friend who knows McVeigh's lawyer Steven Jones. And let me tell you, there is so much there that Jones knows, that the media has never reported on the story. The cover-up on OKC is absolutely frightening.Oh, them crazy media jackals. "I just got a hot lead on a story that would shatter the zeitgeist, make me famous and put me in line for a Pulitzer! Shall I write the story? Naaaah. Like all journalists, my personal and career ambitions always take a backseat to my desire to help Cover Things Up."
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 2:54pm | #
You don't see native French, Italians and Spaniards rioting and shooting at the police cause of "their conditions" now do you?Call me stupid, but which is nuttier, people killing police in Italy over a soccer game, or youth unrest because of living conditions?
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 2:59pm | #
iih,What's interesting is that riots happen all over the world all the time but because Muslims are involved in these riots that makes them extremely significant somehow.
thoreau | November 28, 2007, 2:59pm | #
Aresen-Go hier for more info:
http://herzogravenproductions.com/incif/
joe | November 28, 2007, 3:03pm | #
RC,I know the military apologized for the wedding party it slaughtered in Anbar Province, and recall a couple of episodes in Afghanistan.
This is what happens when you over-stretch your forces and have to rely on air power as a counter-insurgency tool.
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 3:03pm | #
Syloson:I would add that there is good reason, though, to worry and follow these riots closely. Muslims of conscience and the means should do all the can to help resolve these, mostly social, issues (that can easily be manipulated by a few to convert into radicalism). The head of the Muslim French community (his name is Boubaker, if I recall) sounded great on CBC radio last year. Such a reasonable and well educated man.
isildur | November 28, 2007, 3:03pm | #
Holy shit, did Dondero really manage to derail this into a 150+ post thread about Paris?Seriously, just ignore him.
No doubt the men were shocked that the ruse they had seen work so well in Pee Wee's Big Adventure failed them here...
Syloson of Samos | November 28, 2007, 3:13pm | #
Paris brûle-t-il?Master Pain aka Betty | November 28, 2007, 3:13pm | #
Your Merkin Is now Blue!Eeeaaaaeehhheee!
Red Merkin!
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 3:22pm | #
Syloson:Actually here is something that goes deeper into the politics of France and the Muslims:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071210/lalami
Lalami is good.
Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 3:37pm | #
Ali, I saw that guy on CNN last night. Yes, he sounded and looked great. You Moderate Muslims need to get him as your international spokesman.Eric Dondero | November 28, 2007, 3:41pm | #
Sure Franklin, blue collar Frenchmen riot. But for three nights straight? And since when do they shoot at the cops? And when was the last time they poured gasoline on an elderly woman in a bus and set her on fire?iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 3:44pm | #
Eric,The thing about (Sunni) Islam is that it is highly decentralized. It is what causes groups like al Qaeda to exist and flourish, and also the lack of interest in a figurehead and a central leader (a la the Ayatollahs of Shiite Islam or the Pope of Catholicism). If such a person or hierarchy existed it could help in curbing the extremists. The problem is that there has never been one, and there is no theological foundation to create one. Hence, the only way is to make good use of that decentralized structure to promote democracy and liberty among Muslims. That is what I try to do in my capacity --appeal to the decentralized structure to bring the community to a non-radical society which will accept to live peacefully with diversity and personal rights and liberties. There were pockets in the history of Muslims where that happened. The idea is to revive these ideals (see first article on my block).
iih (aka Ali) | November 28, 2007, 3:44pm | #
"block"-->"blog"David | November 28, 2007, 3:46pm | #
No Adrian, there are many patriotic Muslim AmericansHow do you plan to distinguish those from the terrorists, Eric? Everyone seems normal until they don't.
R C Dean | November 28, 2007, 4:17pm | #
I know the military apologized for the wedding party it slaughtered in Anbar Province, and recall a couple of episodes in Afghanistan.Linky? A little light Googling didn't show anything more than the miltary saying it would investigate, and pointedly not apoligizing.