Prophet On the Burning Shore

Let's get one thing clear: We are not all Danes now. If you want to be a Dane, knock yourself out, but I ain't no Dane.

That having been said, bully for the many European papers and websites that are republishing the controversial Jyllands-Posten images of the Prophet Muhammad. If every time the West does anything it creates 100 new suicide bombers, it's only fair that every time the Islamists try and suppress blasphemy they should create 100 new blasphemers. I wanted to repost these a few weeks ago, but there have been so many fakes going around that I wasn't sure I had the right 12. In fact, since some of these seem to have been translated into English, I'm still not totally sure these are the originals, but this is the group that turns up most consistently.

Also included: three extra pics, obviously fakes, that a group of Danish Imams included in a 43-page dossier distributed in the Middle East. With the caveat that any depiction of the Prophet is considered blasphemous, I should point out that the fakes are more crudely offensive, which makes me wonder whether it's still a sin to blaspheme when you're doing it for a higher cause (i.e., getting people mad at infidels)?

In the interest of balance, here's an objection from brusselsjournal.com:

Jee thanx again it shows pure ignorance on ur behalf. What if a muslim draws the picture of denmarki president sucking other men's bottom n showing his wife helping him by doing so?? Will that be 'freedom of speech' the so called democracy??? interesting how the west can force its view points on others in the name of democracy act soo low an arrogant n yet r given the excuse of being so called "democratic". shame on u for accepting such low acts n insulting other peoples religion n inflicting pain upon billions of muslims in the world n yet calling it democracy. I wish a muslim publication in denmark print some filthy cartoons of denmarki president n his wife n will see if the democratic president will see that as a 'freedom of speech'.

For the record, if you have pictures of the president of Denmark sucking other men's bottoms, we'll be happy to publish those too. Sexually explicit pictures of Denmark's Crown Princess Mary are even more welcome. In fact, even if you've got pics of Princess Elisabeth sucking a man's bottom, we'll run those just for shock effect. Now dig the cartoons while I kick back with a Tuborg Gold, the golden beer of Danish kings:

And here are the fakes, which raise the question of how fucking retarded the Danish imams must be if they thought these looked like they belonged with the preceding group:

Comments

Captain Holly | February 3, 2006, 11:17am | #

And I thought I was the only one who ever liked Terrapin Station...

(Extremely obscure cultural reference for the day)

R C Dean | February 3, 2006, 11:20am | #

I'm still not totally sure these are the originals

It really doesn't matter. The point is to publish cartoons that all the right people hate. These clowns need to learn that they can't silence us with their clownish bullying and childish threats.

Sexually explicit pictures of Denmark's Crown Princess Mary are even more welcome.

I'll say.

Phil | February 3, 2006, 11:24am | #

So their bullying is clownish, and their threats childish, but we need to fight a global war against them? How exactly does that happen?

Baylen Linnekin | February 3, 2006, 11:24am | #

Is that last one a Photoshop representation of Dogme 95?

(Slightly obscure, undoubtedly hysterical cultural reference for the day)

thoreau | February 3, 2006, 11:26am | #

I have this to say to the enemies of free speech:

I should be allowed to blurt the merest idea
If by random whim one occurs to me

Jaybird | February 3, 2006, 11:35am | #

"Let's get one thing clear: We are not all Danes now. If you want to be a Dane, knock yourself out, but I ain't no Dane."

Why? You some kinda Swede?

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 11:41am | #

Say, that Crown Princess Mary is a hottie.

If Allah wanted us all to be Muslims, he wouldn't have given us freewill, right? It's the freedom to choose the path to righteousness that matters; otherwise, we should all be pure, unsinning robots.

Mike Laursen | February 3, 2006, 11:42am | #

Hey, wait. I AM a Dane.

Brian | February 3, 2006, 11:44am | #

The virgin one was mildly amusing.

I've always wanted to ask a mullah or ayatollah if chick suicide bombers get 72 dude virgins. They'd keep you occupied for about half an hour.

Ed | February 3, 2006, 11:45am | #

We can strike a blow for democracy (or something) if we all post at least one of these cartoons on our personal websites. I have done so. I eagerly await the fatwah.

R C Dean | February 3, 2006, 11:51am | #

So their bullying is clownish, and their threats childish, but we need to fight a global war against them? How exactly does that happen?

The bullying and threats inspired by these cartoons are childish.

We're fighting a global war against those parts of the Islamist world that have taken up arms and is actively engaged in trying to kill people.

Islamist bullying and threats need not be met with bombs and bullets, but with laughter and more of the same. Islamist bombs and bullets, on the other hand, need to be met with more bombs and bullets.

It ain't rocket science.

biologist | February 3, 2006, 11:52am | #

Cap'n, I also like Terrapin Station

RC, I disagree slightly with your first statement. The point is, in a free society, we can publish what we want, no matter who likes or hates it.

I strongly agree with your second statement. In fact, I demand that Reason obtain and publish sexually explicit photos of HRH the Crown Princess Mary. I'll buy a subscription if you do.

biologist | February 3, 2006, 11:54am | #

RC, we cross-posted. My 11:52 AM was in reference to your 11:20 AM

Captain Holly | February 3, 2006, 11:56am | #

I strongly agree with your second statement. In fact, I demand that Reason obtain and publish sexually explicit photos of HRH the Crown Princess Mary. I'll buy a subscription if you do.

But that's because you only wish to read the articles, right? ;-)

Incidentally, IMHO Terrapin Station was the Dead's best album.

ChicagoTom | February 3, 2006, 11:58am | #

I support the right of publication of these cartoons, but to me the problem is that they are :

1. Not that funny

2. Not much of an insightful commentary

3. Seem to be nothing more than inflammatory.

Although I think the reaction by the Muslim community is over the top, I think there was a lot of poor judgement and poor taste on the part of the publishing parties.

When you have a track record of already treating your minorities poorly as many parts of Europe do, its hard to see these types of things as anything other than antagonistic and derogatory.

The cartoons would be a lot more impressive if they demonized the fanatics within the Muslim community instead of attacking the religion and its important figures generally.

But death threats as a response?? Way to reinforce the beliefs that you find offensive.

mediageek | February 3, 2006, 12:08pm | #

Somebody needs to do a new version of "The Aristocrats" joke that involves fuck-starting Muhammad's head after forcing him to shave his beard off.

Funny?

No.

But that misses the larger point: The funny part comes after it gets widely disseminated and these philosophically neolithic jackasses flip out.

That, my friends, is comedy of the highest sort, and proves that, at least for me, there is indeed comedy in the Muslim world.


Oh yeah, I went there.

Les | February 3, 2006, 12:10pm | #

Captain, I love "Terrapin Station" as well! But I must say that I enjoy "Workingman's Dead" just as much.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, the people making threats based on theses cartoons make me ever-so-happy to deal with Christian fundamentalists. It's strange, though. The Bible is filled with as many barbaric philosophies and proclamations as the Koran, yet Christian and Jewish fundamentalists don't seem to act on them (particularly the violent ones) nearly as often as their Muslim counterparts. Why is this?

Phil | February 3, 2006, 12:10pm | #

A good point is made here, although I'm guessing it will go right over some people's heads.

mediageek | February 3, 2006, 12:12pm | #

Les, they seemed to get most of that worked out of their system in the Middle Ages.

Nowadays, instead of killing unbelievers, they do Potluck dinners.

Ron Bailey | February 3, 2006, 12:14pm | #

Threatening people with death for bad cartoons is the perfect way to get other people to respect your religion, don't you think?

Phil | February 3, 2006, 12:15pm | #

Les, you forgot to add something: " . . . yet Christian and Jewish fundamentalists don't seem to act on them in the West." Do a Google search on "violent orthodox Jews," or "phalangists," to see where you're messing up.

Gonzoide | February 3, 2006, 12:23pm | #

The line "prophet on the burning shore" is from the song "Estimated Prophet," which appears on the *album* "Terrapin Station." Both are classic Grateful Dead songs and I hope neither is an "extremely obscure cultural reference" to lovers of liberty or music. "Estimated prophet" was of course penned by the inimitable John Perry Barlow, the "Thomas Jefferson of internet privacy rights". See this sweet reason interview.

h-dawg | February 3, 2006, 12:29pm | #

Wait, I wanted to go back to Princess Mary. I think there is an important philosophical point to be made in the publishing of compromising pictures as a form of free exrpession.

Now, where is my photoshop....

h-dawg | February 3, 2006, 12:32pm | #

By the way, I don't get the dog picture. Maybe my laptop screen is too small. Nevermind. I don't think I really care.

Bob W. | February 3, 2006, 12:33pm | #

Obscure?

Hah!

Oops. Sorry for the spit. I've been working hard to curb that, but then again I've also been trying to learn the words to Truckin'.

linguist | February 3, 2006, 12:34pm | #

It's about time we sent in the Vikings!

Mr. F. Le Mur | February 3, 2006, 12:35pm | #

Threatening people with death for bad cartoons is the perfect way to get other people to respect your religion, don't you think?

Their religion is laughable and doesn't deserve any respect. As with other religions, but more so.

However, I have a grudging respect for the seriousness with which these troglodytes take themselves; at least they're not hypocritical.

dflynn | February 3, 2006, 12:38pm | #

"Threatening people with death for bad cartoons is the perfect way to get other people to respect your religion, don't you think? "

It does seem to get results, but only if the threats are actually carried out. European governments are considering making satire of religion a class of hate speech. CNN has declined to publish the photos out of respect for Islam, and they received special praise from CAIR. Are any of the mainstream media press in the USA printing the pictures? Or are the photos just showing up on the Internet?

Tactics in the USA seem to be more death by lawsuit expense than the tactics practiced in Europe. One thing about those petro-dollars: the ones offended by the pictures have more money to spend on lawsuits than most individuals.

Twba | February 3, 2006, 12:39pm | #

Afreen Parvez says:

It was outrageous and completely unethical to publish these cartoons.

It was also highly offensive to all Muslims and has made us very angry.

If someone insults your family then that is something you take very seriously, but this is worse than that - this is the Prophet, who is higher than all of us.

Sticks and stones will break my bones, but cartoons...

It's not enough to just say this is all about freedom of expression. We respect freedom of expression but we know there are certain boundaries and limits.

It would not be right for us to publish jokes about Christianity or Hinduism.

I am worried this could all be taken as an excuse by some group to launch a violent response.

There's nothing worse than cartoon violence.

J sub D | February 3, 2006, 12:39pm | #

I fell bound to point out one incontrovertible fact.

ALL RELIGIONS THAT EXIST TODAY STARTED OUT AS HERESY AND BLASPHEMY!!!

Are islamic fanatics so lacking in reason that they don"t get this?

All praise the one true lord, the flying sspaghetti monster.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 12:40pm | #

Vikings + Babe-Crown Princess Mary = Saxon Violence

mediageek | February 3, 2006, 12:41pm | #

"However, I have a grudging respect for the seriousness with which these troglodytes take themselves; at least they're not hypocritical."

I don't.

They're noisy, annoying, and their lack of hypocrisy causes the rest of us no end of grief.

Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

mediageek | February 3, 2006, 12:43pm | #

And yes, I'm trying to get a Fatwah put on my head.

dhex | February 3, 2006, 12:45pm | #

"We respect freedom of expression but we know there are certain boundaries and limits."

hum. actually.

oh, nevermind!

J sub D | February 3, 2006, 12:46pm | #

Make that "feel bound"

Lowdog | February 3, 2006, 12:48pm | #

media - HA! I tried getting excommunicated when I was younger, but that seems a lot tougher to do now than it used to be.

But yeah, having a Fatwah put out on you would be dope.

Brian | February 3, 2006, 12:48pm | #

Ok, on further consideration, the dog one is mildly funny too. On two levels: funny, and funny in its execution. It's like a bad entry in a photoshop contest that's supposed to be bad.

h-dawg | February 3, 2006, 12:51pm | #

Oh, I see what the dog picture is about. Hahahahaha.

GILMORE | February 3, 2006, 1:01pm | #

You are all as usual wrong about everything!

*Workingman's Dead*. Terrapin Station was lame.


JG

mediageek | February 3, 2006, 1:01pm | #

I would seriously consider putting it on my resumé under the "Accomplishments" section.

Eric II | February 3, 2006, 1:02pm | #

A good point is made here, although I'm guessing it will go right over some people's heads.

Or maybe some people will see it as a non sequitor. By publishing some cartoons in a place 3,000 miles away, you're not going out of your way to piss off some devoutly Muslim Iranian dissidents any more than you're going out of your way to piss off a devoutly Christian friend by reading Nietzsche's The Antichrist in the comfort of your home. Now if you were to start reading passages aloud in his presence, it might be a different matter.

It's worth remembering that Jyllands-Posten decided to run these cartoons precisely because no other newspaper at the time had shown the balls to do it out of fear of raising the ire of fanatics. Had attempts to draw Mohammed been as common, and considered as unlikely to lead to fanatical behavior, as attempts to poke fun at Jesus or Buddha, they wouldn't have bothered.

I think I'll buy a tin of Danish butter cookies during my next trip to the grocery store.

jasno | February 3, 2006, 1:03pm | #

Its a bit dishonest to lump the actions of the Taliban in with the rest of Islam, but here goes... So its A-O.K. to blow up an ancient religious statue of the Buddha, but its a dire sin to make a cartoon about Mohammed in a DANISH newspaper that arguably most Muslims won't even read?

Hey, I was a Christian once... The idea that Jesus is only a prophet offends the hell out of me and I demand them to stop publishing these blaspheming Qu'rans or me and my Christian brothers will jihad and boycott the products of Saudi Arabia.

Terrapin Station? No way! Live Dead is the best album of all time...

Jaybird | February 3, 2006, 1:03pm | #

State steps up:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Washington on Friday condemned caricatures in European newspapers of the Prophet Mohammad, siding with Muslims who are outraged that the publications put press freedom over respect for religion.

By inserting itself into a dispute that has become a lightning rod for anti-European sentiment across the Muslim world, the United States could help its own battered image among Muslims.

"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the belief of Muslims," State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper said in answer to a question. "We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."

"We call for tolerance and respect for all communities for their religious beliefs and practices," he added.


Disgusting. Appalling. Vile.

biologist | February 3, 2006, 1:04pm | #

re: lack of Muslim hypocrisy

apparently, when a Muslim paper published an editorial cartoon of rabbis cannibalizing babies, there was no denouncement by Muslim leaders for defaming the leaders of a fellow Abrahamic religion

arthur | February 3, 2006, 1:04pm | #

I'm happy to be a Dane as long as I can be a Great Dane. Preferrably, Crown Prince Mary's Great Dane. Or at least a Pretty Good Dane.

Hakluyt | February 3, 2006, 1:05pm | #

Twba,

It would not be right for us to publish jokes about Christianity or Hinduism.

This fellow is either very ignorant or a hypocrite. Christianity, the West, the U.S., Jews, etc. are viciously lampooned all the time in middle eastern media. In the main we shrug it off as the actions of primitive people or simply ignore it. One wonders why we have largely dissimilar responses.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 1:08pm | #

Look, I'm sorry that many Muslims are so offended, but my government has no business--no business AT ALL--commenting on the content of statements made by private actors. Even non-American ones. These cartoons weren't around during any of the many terrorist acts that have taken place through the years, so I don't think one set of particularly inflamatory cartoons is going to change anything, anyway. People offend me all of the time, but I just deal with. It's the price of freedom.

Captain Holly | February 3, 2006, 1:09pm | #

For the non-Deadheads here who didn't get the reference, the chorus to "Estimated Prophet" goes something like this:

California
A prophet on the burnin' shore
California
And I'll be knocking on the Golden Door
Like an angel
standin' in a shaft of light
risin' up to Paradise
I know I'm gonna shiiine

Hakluyt | February 3, 2006, 1:10pm | #

Pro Libertate,

Since, in the main, Muslims live in nations where freedom is highly circumscribed its not surprising that they lash out at actors in distant lands and its not surprising that their governments support them in this.

Rick Barton | February 3, 2006, 1:12pm | #

One of my fave Danes:

http://www.nada.kth.se/~fred/tycho/index.html

Well, it was called Skane back in 1546 when he was born.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 1:14pm | #

I've always wanted to ask a mullah or ayatollah if chick suicide bombers get 72 dude virgins. They'd keep you occupied for about half an hour.

About a year or so ago I read an article--I'm pretty sure it was in "The Guardian"--about a women's prison in Israel that holds a bunch of failed female suicide bombers. The interviewer asked one woman exactly that--guys get 72 virgins, what's in it for you? The woman, using some very florid language, said that she would get to be the Head Virgin, the Fairest of the Fair, most Beloved of the Beloved, etc.

She also said that Saudi Arabia was a wonderful country where women are treated like rare and precious jewels.

I wish I were making this up.

The Wine Commonsewer | February 3, 2006, 1:15pm | #

All this crap reminds me of a class I was forced to attend in the USMC. It was some feel-good all-cultures-are-equal indoctrination intended to teach our military to get along better overseas.

Toward the end of the show one of the pilots who had been stationed in Turkey stood up and said something like when they teach them to stop shitting in the streets I'll have a little more respect for them. I know, whaddya expect from a Marine pilot?

Got an email from a guy this morning about the flap that said:

Nuke 'em if they can't take a joke

That's a little extreme but I'll certainly join the chorus and point the finger and LOL. Loved the turban bomb thing. Shoulda done a second panel with his head exploded like a watermelon tossed at a block wall.

Gonzoide | February 3, 2006, 1:17pm | #

Workingman's Dead? Terrapin Station? Meh.

No real deadhead deigns to listen to the studio albums. It's all about soundboards people! Or maybe a great matrix like Cornell '77... You want to hear the way "Estimated Prophet" was supposed to sound? Try this!

mediageek | February 3, 2006, 1:17pm | #

"The woman, using some very florid language, said that she would get to be the Head Virgin, the Fairest of the Fair, most Beloved of the Beloved, etc."

Yep, nothing says Heaven like having your hymen repeatedly broken and regrown for all eternity.

Fucking primitives.

Pro libertate | February 3, 2006, 1:19pm | #

Hakluyt, my rant was about our government saying, "naughty, naughty" to the papers in question. That just steams me.

As for the governments in the Arab world, well, they're the problem in the first place. It is amazing the asymmetry between the horrible things they say about (and do to) us and our rather mild statements about them. They and a lot of us seem to find even the slightest offensive remark that we make worthy of divine condemnation, but it's perfectly peachy if they talk about nuking our babies and the like.

Captain Holly | February 3, 2006, 1:21pm | #

I will grant that Workingman's Dead was pretty good. I'm also partial to American Beauty and Wake of the Flood.

In the Dark was kinda lame, though. It confirmed the "Rolling Stones" principle: Supergroups of the '60s should stop while they're ahead.

h-dawg | February 3, 2006, 1:22pm | #

OK, let me explain what is really going on here.

A small group of entrepreneurial Danish Muslims of great genius and a frighteningly subtle sense of humor saw the published pictures of Mohammed and came up with a brilliant plan. They got the published pictures, doctored up a couple more really inflammatory ones, those low-grade, over-the-top blasphemy pics, and borrowed heavily to take out a huge stake in a company that makes Danish flags. They then took their pics to Arabia, emphasizing the ones they doctored up saying, “Disgusting, eh? Aren’t these really awful!? Can you believe ANYONE would display these things? Here, take these Danish flags. You know what to do. And spread the word.”

You can't protest what you can't see, right? But what I find reprehensible, here, I think, is the callous disregard these yahoos had for the delicate sensibilities of the good, Danish people.

mediageek | February 3, 2006, 1:23pm | #

"The woman, using some very florid language, said that she would get to be the Head Virgin, the Fairest of the Fair, most Beloved of the Beloved, etc."

Yeah, but Achmed the dead and martyred suicide bomber tells that to all of his virgins.

So Muslim heaven is like the Special Olympics. Everybody wins.


Sorry to return to a comment I already posted on but whatever.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 1:23pm | #

Mediageek, when I read that, I kept thinking of a field hand of the Old South whose ambition was to one day become the highest-ranking House Nigger on the plantation. That's the ultimate reward: to become a slave, but at least get to lord it over the other slaves.

I'd feel damned sorry for the 71 virgins outranked by this sad creature in the Israeli prison.

Johnny Clarke | February 3, 2006, 1:24pm | #

Hmm, I don't get the one about Muhammed as a paedophile. Has anyone ever accused him of that, or did he become Catholic when I wasn't looking?
Going off the chain at everything that offends you seems, well, a bit immature.

Eric II | February 3, 2006, 1:25pm | #

Disgusting. Appalling. Vile.

Particularly when you consider how often the Bush Administration and its supporters have castigated the Europeans for being feckless and weak-kneed in combating Islamist extremism. Remember all that "Eurabia" crap?

That said, the US still does a better job of defending the right to be politically controversial than Europe, considering all of the laws against "hate speech" to be found on the other side on the pond.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 1:25pm | #

Johnny Clarke--

I seem to recall Mohammed having at least one child bride. Though some say he supposedly married her only to protect her, and never consummated the marriage. Dunno it that's true or not.

Johnny Clarke | February 3, 2006, 1:33pm | #

Ah, yes, he apparently married a girl named "Aisha" when she was 6. Britain just had a big controversy over someone writing about that. Please pardon my ignorance.
I still think the world would be a much better place if people would just chill the hell out.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 1:33pm | #

Well, what do you know? I typed "fairest of the fair" into the Guardian's archive search and the article was the first one that came up. Here it is, but it is horribly depressing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1407216,00.html

Hakluyt | February 3, 2006, 1:35pm | #

Jennifer,

Mediageek, when I read that, I kept thinking of a field hand of the Old South whose ambition was to one day become the highest-ranking House Nigger on the plantation.

Your ignorance of master and slave relations in the Old South (and in general) never ceases to amaze.

h-dawg | February 3, 2006, 1:36pm | #

I can visualize the Danish Imams preparing that dossier.

"Hmm. Do you think these drawings of our prophet are enough?"

"Here. Maybe we should add some of these."

"Mmm, good. Yes, yes. Holy shit, what the hell is that dog doing!!! People will go apeshit if we show this!"

"Yes. Let's."

"OK."

Mr. F. Le Mur | February 3, 2006, 1:39pm | #

Why does the State Department hate the America?

+++
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/03/060203161134.7zd6bpnp.html

US blasts cartoons of Prophet Mohammed
Feb 03 11:11 AM US/Eastern

The United States blasted the publication by European newspapers of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed as unacceptable incitement to religious or ethnic hatred.

"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the beliefs of Muslims," State Department spokesman Justin Higgins said when queried about the furore sparked by the cartoons which first appeared in a Danish newspaper.

"We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility," Higgins told AFP.

"Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable. We call for tolerance and respect for all communities and for their religious beliefs and practices."
[...]
+++

I don't. [have grudging respect]
They're noisy, annoying, and their lack of hypocrisy causes the rest of us no end of grief.
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

I agree. Hypocrisy is probably the main thing, perhaps the only thing, that makes the more westernized religions acceptable to civilized people.

...no denouncement by Muslim leaders for defaming the leaders of a fellow Abrahamic religion.

Were they "supposed to" do so?

SY | February 3, 2006, 1:41pm | #

Insert American Beauty defense here.

Seriously, folks, this one is just screaming for a Parker and Stone send-up.

Akira MacKenzie | February 3, 2006, 1:43pm | #

Hakluyt, my rant was about our government saying, "naughty, naughty" to the papers in question. That just steams me.

I'll say this much, the US government is at least being more consistent than my ultra-Republican Dad on the issue of "offensive cartoons." Yesterday he ranted and raved about who wrong it was for the Arab world to be offended by these cartoons, THEN complained about the how "treasonous" Tom Toles' Washington Post cartoons was.

I'd point out the contradiction, but I learned long ago how pointless an endeavor that was.

Apparently, to American conservatives, the divinity of the U.S. Military trumps that the alleged holiness of Mohammad.

a | February 3, 2006, 1:44pm | #

In the interest of balance, here's an objection from brusselsjournal.com

Tim, that is pathetic. There are many interesting counter-arguments if you are really interested in balance. Instead, you went for the absurd just to boost your argument. I generally agree with you most of the time, but this is truly pathetic.

Eric the .5b | February 3, 2006, 1:46pm | #

Washington on Friday condemned caricatures in European newspapers of the Prophet Mohammad, siding with Muslims who are outraged that the publications put press freedom over respect for religion.

WTF?

The Department of State "steps up", indeed.

beloml | February 3, 2006, 1:46pm | #

Does anyone know if it's possible to buy T-shirts with any of these images yet?

Shem | February 3, 2006, 1:46pm | #

And yes, I'm trying to get a Fatwah put on my head.

Oh, you are so fucking fatwa-ed for that. Wanting a Fatwa on you is the worst Fatwable offense of all.;)

The Wine Commonsewer | February 3, 2006, 1:47pm | #

...no denouncement by Muslim leaders for defaming the leaders of a fellow Abrahamic religion.

Were they "supposed to" do so?

It goes to Islamic hypocrisy.

Anonymo the Anonymous | February 3, 2006, 1:47pm | #

With all the positive comments on American Beauty and Workingman's Dead, I'm wondering if anyone else here listens to Old & in the Way. ... So?

dead_elvis | February 3, 2006, 1:50pm | #

It's about time we sent in the Vikings!

Why, is there a Super Bowl that needs losing?

If someone insults your family then that is something you take very seriously, but this is worse than that - this is the Prophet, who is higher than all of us.

It's the same kind of hyper macho culture that drives me nuts when I see it here in the states or anywhere. The problem is that he starts off by assuming I would care if someone insults my family. He would probably find it unfathomable that there are people who just don't care and don't consider such petty offenses as worthy of fisticuffs.

It's not enough to just say this is all about freedom of expression. We respect freedom of expression but we know there are certain boundaries and limits.

No there aren't.

It would not be right for us to publish jokes about Christianity or Hinduism.

Yes it would.

Akira MacKenzie | February 3, 2006, 1:50pm | #

For more information on the issue regarding the age of Mohammad's wife, Aisha...

gaijin | February 3, 2006, 1:55pm | #

Whatever happened to Allah/God being the one to do the damning?

I don't mind the debate (feeling offended is a freedom to which we are all entitled, afterall)...it's the bombs, bullets, and scimitars that's the issue...that ain't Allah talkin'.

Hakluyt | February 3, 2006, 1:58pm | #

The problem with painting him as a pedophile is this: were such actions morally reprehensible in his culture at that time?

Deus ex Machina | February 3, 2006, 1:59pm | #

One point that most people have missed is that except for one or two cartoons from the original batch, most aren't even defamatory and a few, the Virgin one in particular, are actually somewhat funny. What has gotten most of the Muslim world steamed is that some person dared draw an image of the prophet, which in Islam is considered idolatry and therefore blasphemous. In other words, had all the cartoons been nothing but an innocent depiction of the life of Muhammad, the Islamic fundamentalists would still have been up in arms.

And maybe, as a counterattack, that Danish newspaper should run some examples of the viscous Anti-Semitic editorial cartoons prevalent in the Egyptian and Saudi press.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 2:01pm | #

It's not enough to just say this is all about freedom of expression. We respect freedom of expression but we know there are certain boundaries and limits.

No there aren't.

Politically speaking, I agree--freedom of expression, with some obvious exceptions (e.g., perjury)--should be as absolutely free as possible. That means that we all get offended and hear some simply dreadful things from time to time.

However, as a matter of individual principle, I think there is something wrong with being just insanely offensive. I know, I know, it's chic to go over the top whenever possible, but a little civility now and then would be nice. But, like with Illinois Nazis (I hate Illinois Nazis), I may dislike what they say, but I wouldn't want to force them to shut up

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 2:07pm | #

However, as a matter of individual principle, I think there is something wrong with being just insanely offensive

On the other hand, people who always go out of their way to be nothing more than offensive or insulting usually succeed only in making themselves look offensive, rather than damaging the people they try to offend or insult.

Yes, it's vile when the neo-Nazis do things like march through Jewish sections of town, but does this ever, EVER win them any points with those people who don't already agree with them? No--it only succeeds in getting more sympathy for the Jewish people.

Akira MacKenzie | February 3, 2006, 2:07pm | #

The problem with painting him as a pedophile is this: were such actions morally reprehensible in his culture at that time?

Precisely. The Moose-lim bashers on the American Right seem to forget that European women in Mohammad's time were no older than Aisha was alleged to be when they were married. In fact, it was not to long ago (100 years) when women would be married and have children at an age where today the husband would be charged with pedophilia.

What changed in the last century?

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 2:08pm | #

I wonder how they'd react to a major motion picture on the life of Mohammed? Maybe we should threaten to do one if there are any more terrorist attacks, huh? Or maybe, "Give us Osama bin Laden, or we start production of Mohammed tomorrow. With Kevin Smith as the director".

Of course, finding an appropriate actor for the part who has the cajones to risk his life to portray the Prophet is another question altogether.

confused guy | February 3, 2006, 2:10pm | #

Fat-wha?

smacky | February 3, 2006, 2:11pm | #

It's about time we sent in the Vikings!

*ahem*

Cue Viking Moose, center stage:

thoreau | February 3, 2006, 2:11pm | #

PL-

Find an actor who's so into booze, drugs, fast driving, greasy food, and unprotected sex that he's expected to die within a few years anyway.

SY | February 3, 2006, 2:12pm | #

Anonymo: Pizza Tapes.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 2:14pm | #

thoreau,

Um, Russell Crowe, perhaps? No, no, I've got it: Robert Downey, Jr. Or maybe Charlie Sheen.

dflynn | February 3, 2006, 2:16pm | #

"Yes, it's vile when the neo-Nazis do things like march through Jewish sections of town, but does this ever, EVER win them any points with those people who don't already agree with them? No--it only succeeds in getting more sympathy for the Jewish people. "

How about Germany during the Weimar republic? Or say France circa 1789?

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 2:19pm | #

How about Germany during the Weimar republic?

Yeah, I should have specified "in modern America."

GILMORE | February 3, 2006, 2:20pm | #

OK, yeah American Beauty, agreed.
==================================
i am sort of tired of people sanctimoniously telling each other they need to be 'responsible' and to treat others with 'respect', usually meaning 'please stop expressing a point of view'.

Most of the time the person offering the patronizing suggestion is themselves an odious offender of some kind anyway. I prefer to live in a world where calling a spade a spade is OK, creative insults win points, if you want to make sacred cows into hamburger, go for it. Im not interested in a PC world where everyone speaks in sanitized code like politicians.

Where was the muslim outrage over beheadings in the name of their prophet? If they cared about their image at all maybe they could have taken a stronger stance. the passive tolerance of suicide bombers etc over many has resulted in stuff like this. tough noogies say I. I have more respect for people like this...

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/rnr/130943440.html

Of course, you take your life into your own hands whenever you decide to say anything. :)

Also, speaking of cartoons that can provoke strange reactions, you should all check out the little animated political cartoons on AlJazeera.net.

JG
p.s. even when i listened to the dead, i thought they were mostly pretty boring.

Lowdog | February 3, 2006, 2:21pm | #

thoreau - I'm not an actor, but I could be into all those things enough to go for the part. Plus, I really don't care if a bunch of muslims want to kill me. I'd consider it something to be proud of. :)

R C Dean | February 3, 2006, 2:21pm | #

Akira, as was discussed yesterday, there is all the difference in the world between complaining in a civilized manner about a cartoon (as the Pentagon and likely your father did) and what the Muslim nutballs are doing. If you can't see the difference between a non-violent response and a violent one, there is no hope for you.

mediageek | February 3, 2006, 2:23pm | #

"Oh, you are so fucking fatwa-ed for that. Wanting a Fatwa on you is the worst Fatwable offense of all.;)"

Sweet. Though I was hoping the language would be a teensey bit more Hellfire-and-Brimstone-y.


"What changed in the last century?"

We grew the fuck up. There's no longer a need to get to the procreatin' at an early age because our life expectancy is longer.

As a result of...wait for it...industrialization, computerization, and lots of other things that these adherents to a culture that is nothing but a primitivistic throwback get all up in arms about.

From that standpoint I have no problem casting judgement on either the culture or its idiot religion.

Winston Churchill | February 3, 2006, 2:24pm | #

grudging respect for the seriousness with which these troglodytes take themselves

That is the sort of English up with which I will not put.

thoreau | February 3, 2006, 2:24pm | #

Lowdog-

So, the list of qualifications for this actor with a death wish includes:

1) Heavy drinking
2) Heavy drug use
3) Fast driving, motorcycling without a helmet, etc.
4) Dangerous/extreme sports
5) Love of greasy food
6) Smoking (tobacco or other)
7) Lots of unprotected sex
8) Frequent bar fights

Successful candidates should regularly engage in at least half of the activities on the list, and show an interest in at least 2 other activities. Acting talent optional. Given the hazards inherent in taking on the role, an appreciation of firearms is also highly desirable.

Matt | February 3, 2006, 2:25pm | #

http://www.cafepress.com/antimuhammad

How long do you think it will take until they show up here?

thoreau | February 3, 2006, 2:27pm | #

RC-

In a very important sense, you're right, there's a very meaningful difference in the nature of the response. However, in another sense it would be nice if everybody would just chill out and realize that a drawing that you don't like isn't worth getting even the least bit upset.

Now, arguments in online forums, however, are a serious matter! :)

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 2:27pm | #

RC, I think Akira's point was that his dad used the word "treason" to describe a cartoon he disapproved of. There's a huge difference between saying "I find this offensive" and "I find this treasonous."

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 2:27pm | #

thoreau, you forgot "Willingness to risk having head chopped off in low-budget, independent studio reality pic".

Deus ex Machina | February 3, 2006, 2:29pm | #

Pro Libertate:

A movie has already been made, in part thanks to Syrian-born producer Moustapha Akkad who, incidently, was killed in the 2005 Amman hotel bombings.

They managed to skirt around the restriction on portraying Muhammad by filming the movie directly from his point of view.

Lowdog | February 3, 2006, 2:31pm | #

thoreau - damn, I think I've engaged in just about all those activities at one time or another, although not so much these days.

Pro - yeah, that's the only problem. Getting your head sawed off with a big knife would suck. Better to not let them take you alive, if possible.

thoreau | February 3, 2006, 2:34pm | #

Lowdog-

You should contact Kevin Smith and express interest in the part.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 2:34pm | #

Deus ex Machina,

I'm familiar with that respectful film. That's not what I'm suggesting at all. I'm talking full-blown Hollywood bio-pic distortion here. The ultimate weapon in the Western Arsenal. Don't screw with us, buddy!

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 2:36pm | #

Kevin Smith is definitely the director, given Dogma. I'm not a huge fan of his, but there's no denying that he has relgious insult credentials.

Ben Affleck? Is he suicidal enough now to take the role?

J sub D | February 3, 2006, 2:36pm | #

I have no opinion on casting the Muhammad movie.
However, in the name of historical accuracy,it must be directed by Oliver Stone.

dflynn | February 3, 2006, 2:36pm | #

"Where was the muslim outrage over beheadings in the name of their prophet? "

If you understood something about Islam and the Quran, you wouldn't ask questions like that.

There is this interesting case in Britain where a Muslim cleric is being tried for preaching murder of infidels. The prosecution argues the cleric is preaching murder. The defense argues the cleric is preaching from the Quran. The PC prosecutor is unwilling to concede that the preaching is, indeed, from the Quran.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 2:37pm | #

So sorry for my post-a-thon here, but I have it. Mohammed: The Musical.

For any Muslims out there, this is just a threat. You know, like nukes. I hope we're never forced to actually use these weapons.

linguist | February 3, 2006, 2:38pm | #

I'm happy to be a Dane as long as I can be a Great Dane. Preferrably, Crown Prince Mary's Great Dane. Or at least a Pretty Good Dane.

Comment by: arthur at February 3, 2006 01:04 PM

Oh, man. A good friend of mine, in fact, has a 14-year old Great Dane. Named Arthur.

Akira MacKenzie | February 3, 2006, 2:38pm | #

Jennifer said it better than I could have. My dear-old-Dad holds up the Muslim reaction to the cartoons as evidence of how "tyrannical" they inherently are why they need American foreign interference to teach them about freedom. However, he then turns around and declares a political cartoonist a "traitor" for publishing a work that is critical of U.S. policy "in a time of war."

Who really needs to be taught a lesson in freedom, I wonder?

D.A. Ridgely | February 3, 2006, 2:38pm | #

If Kevin Smith is going to direct, Jason Mews should star.

Lowdog | February 3, 2006, 2:44pm | #

I don't like Kevin Smith much, ever since he fucked over a good friend of mine a few years back. I've never met him, to be fair, but you gotta side with your peeps, gnome sayin'?

R C Dean | February 3, 2006, 2:44pm | #

There's a huge difference between saying "I find this offensive" and "I find this treasonous."

I can see that. But "I think this is treasonous" is still leaps and bounds more civilized than the reaction we are seeing from many Muslims to these cartoons.

Deus ex Machina | February 3, 2006, 2:44pm | #

So sorry for my post-a-thon here, but I have it. Mohammed: The Musical.

That should have been the musical used in the remake of The Producers.

Ed | February 3, 2006, 2:46pm | #

Getting your head sawed off with a big knife would suck.

True, but think of the Academy Awards:

"For Best Performance in Getting His Head Sawed Off With a Big Knife, the Oscar goes to..."

Twba | February 3, 2006, 2:47pm | #

Afreen Parvez, who I quoted in an earlier comment, is a woman. Follow the link to see her eyes peeking out of her burqa. I found it funny to quote her idea of limited freedom. I'm sure she thinks her burqa allows her to live freer than an American woman.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 2:50pm | #

But "I think this is treasonous" is still leaps and bounds more civilized than the reaction we are seeing from many Muslims to these cartoons

Doesn't treason during wartime leave one eligible for the death penalty?

David | February 3, 2006, 2:52pm | #

Who really needs to be taught a lesson in freedom, I wonder?

Apparently everyone, because no one seems to understand the concept.

I will give the Muslim clerics this much, they understand how to manipulate our society much better than we do theirs.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 2:52pm | #

Okay, lowdog, Smith is out. How about Mel Gibson? Braveheart meets The Passion of the Christ.

Ed, I think an actor that gets his head chopped off is a shoe-in for some sort of award. Of course, as merely the choppee, I imagine the only award available would be Best Supporting Actor. Unless they got him while Muhammad: The Musical was still eligible.

On a temporarily serious note, aren't depictions of say, Moses and Jesus also offensive to Muslims?

thoreau | February 3, 2006, 2:55pm | #

Jennifer raises a good point. When people say that a cartoon is treasonous, they should be asked what sort of punishment they would support for the cartoonist. If they back down, they're just blowing steam and engaging in hyperbole. If they call for censorship but no imprisonment or death sentence, they're misguided but not malevolent. And if they call for some sort of serious punishment then they're totally crazy.

theOneState | February 3, 2006, 2:55pm | #

he then turns around and declares a political cartoonist a "traitor" for publishing a work that is critical of U.S. policy "in a time of war."

Akira, that cartoonist may well be a traitor, if the word is used loosely (as I'm sure it is). The question: does your dad think it should be illegal to publish such a cartoon?

thoreau | February 3, 2006, 2:58pm | #

To be clear, when I say "some sort of serious punishment" I mean a punishment that goes even further than yanking the newspaper off the shelves. I didn't mean to trivialize that sort of punishment. I was trying to get at the distinction between people who want to stop an activity that they don't like and people who want to exact retribution on those engaging in the activity.

Austin Powers, International Man of Blasphemy | February 3, 2006, 3:00pm | #

Sexually explicit pictures of Denmark's Crown Princess Mary are even more welcome.

Yeah, baby! Yeah, baby, yeah!

dflynn | February 3, 2006, 3:00pm | #

Treason is aiding and abetting the enemy during a time of war.

The USA has not been at war since VJ day. One of the penalties Presidents must endure when they send troops to fight police actions is they must gnash their teeth in response to treasonous activity instead of seeking indictments for treason.

keith | February 3, 2006, 3:03pm | #

So sorry for my post-a-thon here, but I have it. Mohammed: The Musical

This sounds like a job for Bollywood! They're sick of hyper-sensitive Muslim extremists too, and no one stages a musical number better.

passerby | February 3, 2006, 3:03pm | #

Have any of our timid American newspapers dared to publish the dread cartoons?

R C Dean | February 3, 2006, 3:04pm | #

Even if Akira's dad thinks the cartoon should be illegal and the cartoonist locked up, his reaction is still an order of magnitude more civilized than the rioting, death threats, and whatnot that we see in the Muslim world.

Stevo Darkly | February 3, 2006, 3:04pm | #

Mohammed: The Musical

Get Mel Brooks involved in this. He did a very good song-and-dance treatment of the Inquisition in History of the World: Part 1.

I also think the music should be in the style of ... wait for it ... Mo-Town. (That would be Mecca.)

(No offense intended to our very own good friend Mo[stafa].)

keith | February 3, 2006, 3:07pm | #

From the State Department:

"We call for tolerance and respect for all communities for their religious beliefs and practices,"

Isn't it about time we got to call for this from Islam as well?

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 3:11pm | #

There's "treason", the word we use in common speech, and there's "treason", the crime that's actually set out in the Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.It's really, really, tough to convict somebody of treason per se (two witnesses to the act itself or a confession in open court--whoa). There are historical reasons for us having a tough-to-prove treason law (blame the British), but, in any case, virtually every "treason" case you hear about was actually something else. Interestingly, the reasons for a restrictive treason law apply to things like RICO, too. Hmm.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 3:12pm | #

Even if Akira's dad thinks the cartoon should be illegal and the cartoonist locked up, his reaction is still an order of magnitude more civilized than the rioting, death threats, and whatnot that we see in the Muslim world.

This is true. But Papa MacKenzie's attitude is exactly the sort of thing that can grow into something far more monstrous later, if the conditions are right. Or wrong, rather. When I see people casually use terms like "treason" and "traitor" over such pathetically trivial things, I know exactly which neighbors to fear if this country ever slides into dictatorship.

But then again, as Sinclair Lewis pointed out, "It Can't Happen Here."

amazingdrx | February 3, 2006, 3:12pm | #

What? no defense of this freedom fighter?

http://localnewsleader.com/jackson/stories/index.php?action=fullnews&id=136303

Are you folks sunshine patriots..er..libertarians?

We civil libertarians are not. It's illegal to say bad things relating to all sorts of people in the so-called free world.

The prezz, the queen, all sorts of clebrities in the UK..

Or yelling fire in a crowded maddrassah.

Or yelling "allah ahkbar!!" at a croweded airport.

Or wearing a t-shirt now?

And now a child writing a school essay?

Stevo Darkly | February 3, 2006, 3:13pm | #

To the tune of "Heard It Through the Grapevine":

I know a man ain't supposed to die
But I'll strap on a bomb and suicide
For a car-tooooon, I'll end your life you see
'Cause it means that much to me ...

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 3:15pm | #

Stevo, adding Brooks to our movie/threat would guarantee complete capitulation by the Arab world.

Dare I say Gene Wilder in the starring role?

I think someone should call Secretary Rice with this idea--the War on Terror is over.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 3:18pm | #

Springtime, for all of, the Middle Eeeeast
winter, for every, one else. . .

John | February 3, 2006, 3:19pm | #

I read somewhere that what we need is a movie that does for the war on radical Islam what Dr. Strangelove did for the cold war. You can't play these clowns straight. It needs to be a comedy.

The Muslim response to these cartoons is a real danger. It is represents the attitude that communist activists used to have towards the west; because you believe in freedom of expression and a free society and I don't, you should follow the rules of free expression while I am free to use those rules against you. The very same people that are rioting about these cartoons, find no problem with calling Jews pigs, spreading blood libels, calling for a world caliphate and advocating the forcible conversion of everyone to Islam. In short, they want the rules only to apply to everyone else, why they are free to spread the worst kinds of bile about every other religion and society. Ideally, what these people want is a situation where anytime someone criticizes Islam, it is hate speech and a crime or is brutally condemned and they are free to spread their ideology with impunity. It is a little easier to spread an ideology no matter how cracked after you have shut up all of your critics. If the West and Europe ever reaches that point it will be in a lot of trouble. Don't think for a moment that just because they were not raised in that culture confused and alienated people are not drawn to radical Islam . The fastest growing religion in the prisons of both Europe and America is Islam. Indeed, John Walker Lind and Padia were both red blooded Americans who become Muslim terrorists. If we let these people intimidate us into not criticizing Islam, they have huge leg up in the ideological war.


I never liked Terripan Station to much. It was just too 70s. I will take American Beauty and or Working Man's Dead or even Blues for Allah.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 3:27pm | #

I read somewhere that what we need is a movie that does for the war on radical Islam what Dr. Strangelove did for the cold war. You can't play these clowns straight. It needs to be a comedy.

I agree, but there's one problem--the people who would understand enough about Islam to truly "get" such a comedy would be the same ones who'd refuse to watch it. It's like poking fun at certain aspects of Christianity--"I cast my bread upon the waters, but the damned ducks ate it all"--if you're not familiar with the Christian phrase "cast your bread upon the waters" you won't get the presumed joke.

What does the average non-Muslim know about Islam these days? 72 virgins, jihad means struggle, up to four wives, bow to Mecca five times a day, and that's about it. That isn't enough to make a true satire.

Mel Brooks | February 3, 2006, 3:35pm | #

Bidding in the morning sun,
I'll be bidding when the evening comes.
Watching the bids roll in,
And I watch 'em roll away again.

Lookin' for a nuke on eBay,
Watchin' the bids roll in.
I'm just lookin' for a nuke on eBay,
Wastin' time.

I left my home in Syria,
Headed for Judgment Day.
'Cause I had nothin to live for,
And look like nothing's gonna come my way.

So I'm just...
Lookin' for a nuke on eBay,
Watchin' the bids roll in.
I'm just lookin' for a nuke on eBay,
Wastin' time.

Looks like nothing's gonna change,
Everything still remains the same.
I can't do what the infidels tell me to do,
So I guess I'll remain insane.

Sittin' here testin' my bombs,
And this craziness won't leave me Allah.
It's two thousand miles I roamed,
Just to hammer my point home.

Now, I'm just...
Lookin' for a nuke on eBay,
Watchin' the bids roll in.
I'm just lookin' for a nuke on eBay,
Wastin' time.

GILMORE | February 3, 2006, 3:36pm | #

I ask rhetorically - "Where was the muslim outrage over beheadings in the name of their prophet? "

DFlynn says =
"If you understood something about Islam and the Quran, you wouldn't ask questions like that"

Dude, kindly turn your "popmous-dickhead" filter back on.

I've studied comparative religion, read the koran in various translations, etc. The bible has babies being dashed on rocks. Psalms137:8-9, proscriptions for some pretty nasty punishments for average transgressions Deuteronomy 21:18-21, etc. And the koran's got all sorts of nutty shit as well. So what? None of that has anything to do with the average moderate population of the faithful. Beheadings arent any more normalized in Islam than anywhere else... it's just that their shitty societies are incapable of self-criticism since they've been playing victim for so long. It's not 'their god is not as good as this other god'.

Did i already mention that you're a dick? Ok.

JG

John | February 3, 2006, 3:37pm | #

Good point Jennifer. A movie like Life of Brian is only funny because we all grew up around the culture of Christianity and understand the references within it. I doubt that movie played very well in places like Southeast Asia where there are few Christians. You could however, make a more political movie. Think about, how much do you have to know about Communism to get the jokes in Dr. Strangelove? A few suicidal bearded mullahs leading a fictitious Muslim country who manage to get a hold of a doomsday device, might work quite well, except of course that that movie is already being made by Iran.

dflynn | February 3, 2006, 3:49pm | #

"Beheadings arent any more normalized in Islam than anywhere else... "

Aside from the fact that Islam is not a place,

did you reach this conclusion from your extensive study of comparative religions, or did you reach it by paying attention to current events?

henry | February 3, 2006, 3:50pm | #

Fuck Allah, fuck God, fuck Jesus, fuck Muslims, fuck Christians, fuck Jews, just fuck all you monotheistic cocksuckers. And fuck the Joint Chiefs of Staff, too.

Censorious motherfuckers: die, immediately, every last one of you.

OK, I'm done.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 3:51pm | #

As I think about it, another problem, John, is that such a comedy would only "preach to the choir"--it wouldn't do anything to help fanatic Muslims themselves realize what's wrong with their attitude toward religion. "The Life of Brian" was a great movie for a secularized Christian society, but it would have done nothing to convince, say, the medieval Catholic church to lighten up and stop taking itself so seriously. And I don't think it does much for the Fred Phelps/Jerry Falwell types, either.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 3:52pm | #

Beaheading is to Islam as the Inquisition is to Christianity. Neither one authorized by the holy books, but they happened just the same.

Dflynn, you really need to lighten up.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 3:55pm | #

Not that I was ever serious about the Mohammed bio-pic, but there is such a thing as moderate Muslims (esp. outside the Middle East). There's an audience right there. Besides, satire can work on many levels and doesn't require deep knowledge of the subject being mocked. Read Swift or Twain, for instance.

Jaybird | February 3, 2006, 3:55pm | #

Looking in the Corner and at Hugh Hewitt, it seems the the Religious Righties have realized that there is hay to be made.

If we say "you shouldn't make fun of Mohammed", then we get to say "you shouldn't make fun of Jesus"!

John | February 3, 2006, 3:56pm | #

Jennifer,

The point wouldn't be so much to convert anyone who is already a fanatic, but to make fun of the fanatics to such an extent they would have a hard time converting anyone who is not already on their side. BTW, I know a lot of pretty devout Christians who find Life of Brian hysterical.

Phil | February 3, 2006, 4:06pm | #

I love that John thinks that Dr. Strangelove was anything but tangentially related to Communism, and that it was furthermore anti-Communist. Hi-larious.

Drinky | February 3, 2006, 4:09pm | #

I think "Prophet Mohammed, Superstar" has a nice ring to it.

Also, they could kill seven or eight birds with one stone if Rolling Stone would have Kanya West dress up like Mohammed on the cover of their next issue.

Steven Crane | February 3, 2006, 4:09pm | #

amazingdrx...

that article was posted a whopping seventeen minutes before i clicked it.

excuse me if i don't scour every possible local news source for creeping statism. i mean... i have a life, you know.

that said, having the Secret Service investigate a seventh-grader for describing his gory but entirely unrealistic "perfect day" is moronic. perhaps even more moronic is the teacher that ratted him out.

biologist | February 3, 2006, 4:10pm | #

F. Le Mur:

if they don't want to be hypocrites regarding defaming religious symbols, yes, they were supposed to denounce the images if they're going to denounce images "defaming" (or criticizing, or just images) of their own religious symbols

Drinky | February 3, 2006, 4:12pm | #

Or better yet, have Kanye West star in Prophet Mohammed, Superstar! The ideas just keep coming!

John | February 3, 2006, 4:19pm | #

I love that John thinks that Dr. Strangelove was anything but tangentially related to Communism, and that it was furthermore anti-Communist. Hi-larious.


I think Phil, as usual, is an idiot. I never said that Dr. Strangelove was an anti-communist film. I am sorry that your reading comprehension is so low that you didn't realize that. Next time I will try to explain my point by being more explicit and using smaller words.

Crushinator | February 3, 2006, 4:20pm | #

Blues for Allah would have been a more appropriate title for this thread, but it sure was a crappy song.

Quotations from The Dead are not culturally obscure - they are not in widespread use because the folks who heard these lines in concerts have diminished memory skills.

I liked the picture of the dog. It looks like the dog is humping the carpet-humping man (What happened to him? Did he croak from rug burns?)

v | February 3, 2006, 4:21pm | #

What I remember reading about Aisha is that she married at 6 and the union was consummated when she was 9. I think there also is some evidence that she was later unable to conceive and it was speculated that her infertility was a result of damage to her sexual organs.

Brian Courts | February 3, 2006, 4:22pm | #

Beaheading is to Islam as the Inquisition is to Christianity. Neither one authorized by the holy books, but they happened just the same.

Jennifer, I don't think I'd go that far. One does not have to look very hard for plenty of textual support for the killing of infidels, particularly in the Hadith, and heretics, particularly in the Old Testament. What more authorization could a text give then to set out such a general principle so clearly? The specific mechanics of the killing may be left to the individual, but the authorization is plainly there.

John | February 3, 2006, 4:24pm | #

Also, they could kill seven or eight birds with one stone if Rolling Stone would have Kanya West dress up like Mohammed on the cover of their next issue.

Rolling Stone wouldn't have the balls to do that in a million years. Think about that next time some clown writer from there tries to claim to be edgy and couragous. Couragous would be to put West on the cover as Mohammed. Since the folks at Rolling Stone are cowards, they choose the easy target and put him on there as Christ and then claim to be couragous.

Timothy | February 3, 2006, 4:26pm | #

RC, I think Akira's point was that his dad used the word "treason" to describe a cartoon he disapproved of. There's a huge difference between saying "I find this offensive" and "I find this treasonous."

This reminded me of my least popular opinion (in Texas, anyway): that Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis probably should've been hanged for treason. That's goddamn right, I said it, they waged war agains the US, should've been hanged.

biologist | February 3, 2006, 4:26pm | #

the best grateful dead cd imho is Dozin' at the Knick, a live recording of a show at the Knickerbocker Arena. one of the few commercially released cds that has "The Wheel"

St. Stephen off Live/Dead is the best version of that song

My fave song: US Blues

mossie | February 3, 2006, 4:28pm | #

......|..|..|..|..|........Bottoms..Up
......|.@.@.|....../
......|.....J....|...../
..........=../
........_|_......W
....../..|..|../
..../....|..|/
........|
........|
......../..
........|....
........|.......
........|....../.
........|..../.
......_|.....


Here is a selection from my collection "Cocktails with the Prophets", entitled "Martini with Mohammed"

Must I die?

Mac Daddy Hoon | February 3, 2006, 4:32pm | #

Here's an oldie but goodie:

What did one deadhead say to the other deadhead when they ran out of pot?

"Hey, this music sucks!"

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all weekend.

Timothy | February 3, 2006, 4:32pm | #

Also, the Greatful Dead are crap. Jerry's dead. Put down the tie-dye and step away from the bong.

Randolph Carter | February 3, 2006, 4:35pm | #

;^)

Does my above, saucy and emoticon-based rendition of the Prophet Mohammed qualify me for Infidelity?

biologist | February 3, 2006, 4:37pm | #

they were never the Greatful Dead, Timothy, when Jerry was alive, they were the Grateful Dead. now they're The Dead, unless Phil Lesh is feeling grumpy and won't tour with them, in which case they're The Other Ones, joined by Ratdog and Mystery Box and Joan Osbourne and Bob Dylan and Robert Hunter Band

you'll have to pry my Jerry Garcia-designed neckties from my cold, dead hands

Karen Cox | February 3, 2006, 4:37pm | #

Danish monarchy: It's totally unfair that the Crown Princess is gorgeous but the both the Crown Prince and his brother look like 2nd tier bank managers. Joachim even has a horrid comb-over. Explicit pictures of these two go nowhere. Note to self: find a royal house where the MEN are decent looking, manufacture bizarre scandal involving Islam, and suggest the imams look for naked pictures of male royalty.

Personally, if it weren't on CNN I'd think this was a Monty Python sketch I missed. I mean, DENMARK ???!!? (Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly described it as "cuddly, little, Denmark.") They haven't threatened anyone in the last millenium. The home of Legos just is not a good fit for the role of imperialist infidel pigs. At least England and France used to have colonies. The Danes don't even dominate cross country skiing at the Olympics.

The fact that large numbers of people in the Muslim world can get hideously offended and threaten to recall ambassadors over a few drawings shows just how far apart we are. I realize that any representation of Mohammed is offensive to Muslims, which puts me rather far ahead of the rioters, in that I can put myself in their place and have some understanding of what they find offensive. No prominent Muslim has the courage to step and explain Western ideas of pictorial art and satire to his own co-religionists. Muslims expect all of us just to cave on their feelings while retaining the right to abuse ours.

Finally, all of you have missed the greatest political movie of all time: the 1939 "To Be Or Not To Be" with Jack Benny and Carole Lombard, and featuring a character named Greenburg who impersonated Hitler. We need to find someone who can do something like that for radical Islam.

Karen Cox | February 3, 2006, 4:37pm | #

Danish monarchy: It's totally unfair that the Crown Princess is gorgeous but the both the Crown Prince and his brother look like 2nd tier bank managers. Joachim even has a horrid comb-over. Explicit pictures of these two go nowhere. Note to self: find a royal house where the MEN are decent looking, manufacture bizarre scandal involving Islam, and suggest the imams look for naked pictures of male royalty.

Personally, if it weren't on CNN I'd think this was a Monty Python sketch I missed. I mean, DENMARK ???!!? (Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly described it as "cuddly, little, Denmark.") They haven't threatened anyone in the last millenium. The home of Legos just is not a good fit for the role of imperialist infidel pigs. At least England and France used to have colonies. The Danes don't even dominate cross country skiing at the Olympics.

The fact that large numbers of people in the Muslim world can get hideously offended and threaten to recall ambassadors over a few drawings shows just how far apart we are. I realize that any representation of Mohammed is offensive to Muslims, which puts me rather far ahead of the rioters, in that I can put myself in their place and have some understanding of what they find offensive. No prominent Muslim has the courage to step and explain Western ideas of pictorial art and satire to his own co-religionists. Muslims expect all of us just to cave on their feelings while retaining the right to abuse ours.

Finally, all of you have missed the greatest political movie of all time: the 1939 "To Be Or Not To Be" with Jack Benny and Carole Lombard, and featuring a character named Greenburg who impersonated Hitler. We need to find someone who can do something like that for radical Islam.

Karen Cox | February 3, 2006, 4:37pm | #

Danish monarchy: It's totally unfair that the Crown Princess is gorgeous but the both the Crown Prince and his brother look like 2nd tier bank managers. Joachim even has a horrid comb-over. Explicit pictures of these two go nowhere. Note to self: find a royal house where the MEN are decent looking, manufacture bizarre scandal involving Islam, and suggest the imams look for naked pictures of male royalty.

Personally, if it weren't on CNN I'd think this was a Monty Python sketch I missed. I mean, DENMARK ???!!? (Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly described it as "cuddly, little, Denmark.") They haven't threatened anyone in the last millenium. The home of Legos just is not a good fit for the role of imperialist infidel pigs. At least England and France used to have colonies. The Danes don't even dominate cross country skiing at the Olympics.

The fact that large numbers of people in the Muslim world can get hideously offended and threaten to recall ambassadors over a few drawings shows just how far apart we are. I realize that any representation of Mohammed is offensive to Muslims, which puts me rather far ahead of the rioters, in that I can put myself in their place and have some understanding of what they find offensive. No prominent Muslim has the courage to step and explain Western ideas of pictorial art and satire to his own co-religionists. Muslims expect all of us just to cave on their feelings while retaining the right to abuse ours.

Finally, all of you have missed the greatest political movie of all time: the 1939 "To Be Or Not To Be" with Jack Benny and Carole Lombard, and featuring a character named Greenburg who impersonated Hitler. We need to find someone who can do something like that for radical Islam.

Timothy | February 3, 2006, 4:48pm | #

biologist: I will admit that some of the Jerry-designed neckties are nice. But, what, were they too stoned to spell?

Karen Cox | February 3, 2006, 4:51pm | #

Sorry about the repeated postings. My computer is having hot flashes or something. Maybe it's fuming because I downloaded the Archie's "Sugar, Sugar" last week.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 4:52pm | #

You downloaded "Sugar Sugar," Karen? You're lucky your computer doesn't explode in your face.

Timothy, "grateful" is the proper spelling.

Mac Daddy Hoon | February 3, 2006, 4:53pm | #

Timothy,

Dude, 'greatful' isn't even a word.

Timothy | February 3, 2006, 4:55pm | #

HAHA. Well, then I am the one who is too stoned.

Please don't tell my employer.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 4:56pm | #

How much is it worth to you to keep your job, Timothy?

biologist | February 3, 2006, 4:58pm | #

Timothy, thanks! I haven't laughed so hard since the last time I got stoned!

Patrick | February 3, 2006, 5:01pm | #

I have always loved Denmark and love it more now.

While no paragon of libertarianism otherwise, the Prime Minister of Denmark has it just about right, and is showing far more sense than our state department.

What this really is is an excellent opportunity to teach that segment of the world's muslims who have never known, how to peacefully co-exist in a free society: Upset? You have a right to be; Protest and condemnation? Sure!; Boycott? A perfectly appropriate response in a free society, although a little misplaced, because in a free society you can't hold all of the people responsible for the actions of a few; Violence, death threats, calls for terror? Sorry, you guys just crossed the line. Calling for the death of one of my fellow citizens just because he offends you is barabaric, and requires me to defend my fellow citizen, which would, if necessary, include killing you. So, do we live together by using peaceful methods to express our anger, or should we just agree no to fight it out to the death, so that with only one of us left the problem goes away?

Karen Cox | February 3, 2006, 5:02pm | #

Jennifer,

I can't defend "Sugar, Sugar." I prevented a city-levelling explosion by downloading Artie Shaw's "Begin the Beguine" and the entire Beatles catalog at the same time. (Curses on Mr. Jobs for not reaching a contract with The Other Apple. Beatles aren't available on iTunes.)

Buying that song did, however, spark a week-long email exchange with a group of friends on the subject of "what is the worst song or group you actually like?" I highly recommend this as an ice-breaker. It gets conversations started and allows to determine whether someone has amusing quirks or is completely hopeless.

gaius marius | February 3, 2006, 5:03pm | #

I read somewhere that what we need is a movie that does for the war on radical Islam what Dr. Strangelove did for the cold war. You can't play these clowns straight. It needs to be a comedy.

i disagree. dr strangelove is a great western film because it precisely captures our widespread cynicism and disillusionment and focused it on the cold war at a time when that was hard to do.

drenchingly ironic is not where islamic civilization is metaphysically -- this is not a civilization disenchanted with virtually every element of its own past, present and future, as the west now is, waiting calmly for its dissolution while lazily smoking a cigarette at a cafe table.

most muslims still take the world seriously. say what you like about that -- from the western perspective, it's exceedingly gauche and naive -- but it imparts to islamic culture a vibrance and vitality that went missing in the west a century ago -- which sees now only the occasional bout of militant revival among half-considered ideologues.

i think very few rational observers -- muslims included -- see the rantings of placard-holding zealots in a mob to be intelligent, regardless of who is holding them, even if they can be sympathetic to the views that spurred such overreaction. nor should one take them for the general sentiment of muslims.

but what remains is that the west's inability to respect anything -- about itself or anyone else -- will be a constant source of irritation and conflict with all the non-western peoples of the earth (which include a large and growing number of disaffected proletarians living within the west) until such time as we collapse unto ourselves in our decadence. the childlike reaction of some western media -- to reprint it all, but writ large -- is, it seems to me, all the greater an indictment of the personal irresponsibility that has become the hallmark of being a westerner.

is the freedom of the european press at all threatened by muslim crowds in streets distant? OBVIOUSLY not -- that isn't why the papers are doing this at all. they are doing it from a deep cultural antipathy toward restriction or responsibility of any kind, real or perceived. and the more unrest it provokes, the more irresistably titillating it becomes to provoke further, just to show how unaccountable you are.

that is a dangerous game, but more importantly a vulgar, savage one. there's a bit of cock-crowing hereabouts regarding how "free" we are to do this -- but the entire sordid affair illustrates in part how our obsession with not liberty but freiheit has gutted us as a civilization and made westernism the enemy of a great many thoughtful, concerned people.

Timothy | February 3, 2006, 5:03pm | #

Jennifer: Well, I can offer you the cash I've got that isn't already spoken for...so about the best I can do is $4. I am willing to work off my debts, however. And I mean that in a purely non-sexual sense.

Biologist: You're welcome. I am here to enlighten and entertain...apparently today I'm doing more of the "entertaining." Maybe next week I'll say something smart, but I wouldn't count on it.

Tony the Tiger | February 3, 2006, 5:06pm | #

Greatful is so too a word! Full of greatness! And a nutritious part of your daily breakfast.

Timothy | February 3, 2006, 5:08pm | #

Thanks Tony, glad to know I can count on you.

Lowdog | February 3, 2006, 5:09pm | #

Jebus, gaius is back to tell us how done we are, culturally.

Hope the baby is doing well, mr marius, but it was nice not to have your pessimism around here for a while! :)

Tony the Tiger | February 3, 2006, 5:12pm | #

No, problem Timothy. Everything is groovy. . .and great! Here, have another hit of my Frosted Flakes. Oh, yeah.

anomdebus | February 3, 2006, 5:12pm | #

Dflynn, you really need to lighten up.

Comment by: Jennifer at February 3, 2006 03:52 PM

Ha ha, so rich its fattening! :P

J sub D | February 3, 2006, 5:15pm | #

To Karen: My Love, performed by Petula Clarke.

To All: Please don't ostracize me.

Douglas Fletcher | February 3, 2006, 5:21pm | #

Me and the Dane go way back. Way back.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 5:24pm | #

Karen: Gino Vannelli.

I'm so ashamed.

Timothy | February 3, 2006, 5:25pm | #

Don't you mean GRRRRRRRREAT!, Tony?

Timothy | February 3, 2006, 5:30pm | #

*scratches J sub D's name on a small piece of broken pottery*

gaius marius | February 3, 2006, 5:32pm | #

Hope the baby is doing well, mr marius, but it was nice not to have your pessimism around here for a while! :)

i like to think the little tyke has brightened me up a bit, actually, lowdog. ;)

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 5:33pm | #

Oh, no, Timothy, not another classicist! Don't we have enough here already?

Incidentally, we vote on "shards" of pottery around here. We don't do "pieces".

Karen Cox | February 3, 2006, 5:42pm | #

J sub D: I'll still love you. Then again, I paid $0.99 for a copy of "Sugar, Sugar." I'm sure there's a support group for people who like uptempo happy-themed ballads as opposed to whatever "the world totally sucks" to a thumping beat is topping the charts right now.

For what it's worth, we all decided that the guy with the complete works of Def Leppard in his car had the worst taste.

Gaius: I sympathize with your dislike of that streak of elite nihilism that many Western intellectuals like to put on. I'm not so sure this particular incident is a good example. The cartoons in question are perfectly ordinary European drawings. Not all of 'em are even satirical. (I thought the one with the green star for an eye was engaging.)

In the West, we have no taboo and never have had against pictures of the human body. This is just a part of our culture, like burkhas and arranged marriages are part of theirs. A basic element of modern civilization is tolerance, in its strictest meaning, of differences that don't threaten public peace. Part of said tolerance is learning to ignore things that are blindingly offensive unless those acts injure people or property. Yes, it does make it seem as though we don't take our beliefs that seriously, but it helps public order, which allows us to pursue our beliefs in peace.

I don't think I'm any less a Christian because I'm not offended at "Happy Holidays" or beer sales on Sunday. In fact, it makes my rejection of those practices -- well, "Happy Holidays" anyway -- that much more courageous, since I'm going against the grain of culture. Islam needs to find a way to make endurance of adversity more of a virtue, and learn how to live in a world with other people. Temper tantrums aren't cute past the 3rd birthday.

jp | February 3, 2006, 5:42pm | #

"Sexually explicit pictures of Denmark's Crown Princess Mary are even more welcome."

Now, that's funny. Because it's real.

jp | February 3, 2006, 5:44pm | #

"Sexually explicit pictures of Denmark's Crown Princess Mary are even more welcome."

Now, that's funny. Because it's real.

Timothy | February 3, 2006, 5:46pm | #

Pro Libertate: Classicist? Nay, but I remember bits of history here and there. Majored in Economics, though.

And, yes, fine, "shards", then. You get on us about "hoisted by his own petard" and then insist that an ostacon be called a "shard" rather than a broken piece of pottery. The hell?

Karen Cox | February 3, 2006, 5:46pm | #

J sub D: I'll still love you. Then again, I paid $0.99 for a copy of "Sugar, Sugar." I'm sure there's a support group for people who like uptempo happy-themed ballads as opposed to whatever "the world totally sucks" to a thumping beat is topping the charts right now.

For what it's worth, we all decided that the guy with the complete works of Def Leppard in his car had the worst taste.

Gaius: I sympathize with your dislike of that streak of elite nihilism that many Western intellectuals like to put on. I'm not so sure this particular incident is a good example. The cartoons in question are perfectly ordinary European drawings. Not all of 'em are even satirical. (I thought the one with the green star for an eye was engaging.)

In the West, we have no taboo and never have had against pictures of the human body. This is just a part of our culture, like burkhas and arranged marriages are part of theirs. A basic element of modern civilization is tolerance, in its strictest meaning, of differences that don't threaten public peace. Part of said tolerance is learning to ignore things that are blindingly offensive unless those acts injure people or property. Yes, it does make it seem as though we don't take our beliefs that seriously, but it helps public order, which allows us to pursue our beliefs in peace. Islam needs to find a way to accomodate to a world with other beliefs. Temper tantrums aren't cute past age 3.

Congrats on the new baby. Is this this first? If so, I promise the tyke will sleep, one day, years from now, but you have something to anticipate.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 5:49pm | #

Timothy, I'm just feeling peckish and arbitrary. At least I didn't insist on the original Greek, though smacky might.

Ken Shultz | February 3, 2006, 5:49pm | #

Welcome back gaius!

Timothy | February 3, 2006, 5:51pm | #

Pro Libertate: Fair enough. I know the Greek alphabet, mostly, but that's as far as it goes and only because I needed to learn it for math.

Karen Cox | February 3, 2006, 5:52pm | #

Sorry again for the double post.

Since my computer is still exacting revenge for 'Sugar, Sugar' and posted something I tried to delete, let me state that I have no problem at all with Target using "Happy Holidays" to accomodate customers who celebrate one of the many other holidays in November and December. Until last year, I just replied "Merry Christmas." Now that O'Reilly and the Wackos made it such an issue, I'm going to change greetings next year.

Have fun with this thread guys. I have to take the boys to the Y to swim this evening.

Mr. F. Le Mur | February 3, 2006, 5:53pm | #

Beaheading is to Islam as the Inquisition is to Christianity. Neither one authorized by the holy books, but they happened just the same.

"When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives." Surat Mohammed:4

Dflynn, you really need to lighten up.

He's right, you're wrong.

I have no doubt that I can find Biblical support for the Inquisition (the Malleus refers to the Bible quite a bit), but it's a moot point since nearly all modern Christians are hypocrits, and eastily pick and choose which Words of God to ignore.

Respecting religion is respecting ignorance and superstition.

v | February 3, 2006, 6:06pm | #

>Maybe it's fuming because I downloaded the Archie's "Sugar, Sugar" last week.

I, for one, think Sugar Sugar is an awesome pop song and I'll say it for nothin'. But then again, I *heart* bubble gum music, generally.

>the guy with the complete works of Def Leppard in his car had the worst taste.

If you knew someone with the complete works of REO Speedwagon, possibly the worst major hit-making band of all time, that would be sayin' something.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 6:06pm | #

Mr. Le Mur--

But the Koran also has verses demanding mercy. It's all a matter of which verses you choose to follow. The same Bible that inspired Torquemada inspired Martin Luther King.

Hell, if you're enough of a bastard you could probably find justifications for murder in the Girl Scout Handbook or the Paddington Bear books.

Jim Anchower | February 3, 2006, 6:07pm | #

If you knew someone with the complete works of REO Speedwagon, possibly the worst major hit-making band of all time, that would be sayin' something.

Hola, amigos. REO Speedwagon is the greatest band of all time.

Eric II | February 3, 2006, 6:35pm | #

is the freedom of the european press at all threatened by muslim crowds in streets distant? OBVIOUSLY not -- that isn't why the papers are doing this at all. they are doing it from a deep cultural antipathy toward restriction or responsibility of any kind, real or perceived.

Both the Salman Rushdie case and the emergence of hate speech laws would suggest otherwise. But it doesn't surprise me that you decided to use this story to push your traditional talking points. And it's worth pointing out here that the cartoons are tame compared with much of the racist and bigoted stuff that Western newspapers and magazines have published about various religions and ethnic groups many decades earlier.

In a lot of ways, your attitudes have less in common with those of a traditional, aristocracy-supporting Catholic conservative than they do with those of a post-modern leftist.

Stevo Darkly | February 3, 2006, 6:48pm | #

I think ostracons (source of "ostracize") are also called "potsherds" (corruption of pot shards?).

Welcome back, gaius! That last was interesting. And since you still refuse to capitalize, thanks for at least breaking it up into short digestible paragraphs.

PS: Just FYI, I still retain a certain nostalgic affection for the early works of Judas Priest (until around "Living After Midnight") and Def Leppard's little-remembered first album, On Through the Night.

Stevo Darkly | February 3, 2006, 6:55pm | #

Probably shoulda spelled that "ostrakons."

And now I remember reading a Harry Turtledove short story called "Counting Potsherds." It was set in an alternative history where classical Greek democracy died out. A Persian (?) archaeologist or something was digging through the ruins of Athens and trying to understand the records he found. He couldn't figure out who this decision-maker named "Demos" was and why he was so awfully powerful; he thought maybe it was the name of some tyrant.

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 7:10pm | #

Jennifer:

In the name of Paddington, Aunt Lucy, and the Holy Marmalade, I shall slay unbelievers and send their souls, unshriven, to a place other than Lima. The UnLima, if you will.

John | February 3, 2006, 7:23pm | #

Karen,

You think the Danish royal family is unfair, look at the Spanish one sometime. The Spanish crown princes of Spain Letizia Ortiz is God's gift to men and the crown prince also, looks like a second tier banker.

John | February 3, 2006, 7:29pm | #

but what remains is that the west's inability to respect anything -- about itself or anyone else -- will be a constant source of irritation and conflict with all the non-western peoples of the earth (which include a large and growing number of disaffected proletarians living within the west) until such time as we collapse unto ourselves in our decadence. the childlike reaction of some western media -- to reprint it all, but writ large -- is, it seems to me, all the greater an indictment of the personal irresponsibility that has become the hallmark of being a westerner.



Gaius, what you really are saying is don't feed the animals they might bite. The unfortuneate fact is that the mobs are living in backward countries who would be crushed in a clash of civilizations with the West. The problem is not here, the problem is with Muslims and their ability to adapt to the modern world or get crushed by it. Yes, it is a dangerous game, but a much more dangerous game for Muslims. The more they act like this, the easier it is for Westerners to de-humanize them. In between rants of holocost denial, Muslims might want to ask the Jews what it means to be a de-humanized minority in Europe.

dead_elvis | February 3, 2006, 7:44pm | #

and Def Leppard's little-remembered first album, On Through the Night.

I remember it every time I crack open a bottle of wine ;)

Bonar Law | February 3, 2006, 8:01pm | #

Why can't Westerners use reverse terrorism on Muslim extremists?

Chop off someone's head, we retaliate by doing a cartoon about Mohammad marrying that 9-year-old.

Ambush a group of American soldiers, we strike back by publishing a cartoon of Mohammad eating a bacon-and-eggs breakfast at Denny's.

Acquire a nuclear device, and we release the cartoon with Mohammad and the goat.

Jennifer | February 3, 2006, 9:16pm | #

Pro Libertate--

No. Make their souls spend eternity living with Mr. Curry.

Callforjustice911 | February 3, 2006, 9:31pm | #

What is it with these Islamic bone heads? Can't take Western satire?

Your "Prophet" stinks... What a weird religion you have. Beyond reason.

I think I will go and do some satirical drawings of your stinking rotten prophet and post them everywhere. Your rotten religion provides the fuel for such.

Anyone with a sense of reason should do so.

To hell with Islmaic notions of umbrage!

They kill us with bombs; they saw off our heads; they call us infidel "crusaders"--

They have no respect for anyone outside of their stinking rotten faith...

So...

Callforjustice911

SixSigma | February 3, 2006, 10:02pm | #

mediageek:

Pro Libertate | February 3, 2006, 11:11pm | #

Jennifer, Mr. Curry is the source of all evil in the world. Kind of an Anti-Bear, if you will.

Karen Cox | February 3, 2006, 11:19pm | #

Jennifer, I seem to recall that Ted Bundy did in fact keep a copy of the Girl Scout Manual which he read before a murder spree. Charles Manson used "The White Album" and David Berkowitz thought he got messages from his neighbor's dog.

All,

The point is that someone bent on killing can generally find something to blame for it other than himself, whether or not said person is certifiable. The Bible and Koran get picked more than the Girl Scout Manual because more people have read them, so there's a bigger pool of nutcases familiar with them from which to draw.

In the case of the cartoons at issue here, I believe the problem is that Mohammed is the subject, regardless of how he's pictured. Islam prohibits any pictures of humans. The West simply doesn't have this taboo at all. Respecting all Muslims feelings here would require us to empty our museums and destroy thousands of years of priceless artworks. We ain't goin' there, so the Muslims need to get a life on that point.

Audrey | February 3, 2006, 11:34pm | #

"About a year or so ago I read an article--I'm pretty sure it was in "The Guardian"--about a women's prison in Israel that holds a bunch of failed female suicide bombers. The interviewer asked one woman exactly that--guys get 72 virgins, what's in it for you? The woman, using some very florid language, said that she would get to be the Head Virgin, the Fairest of the Fair, most Beloved of the Beloved, etc." Heh, heh, lesbian sex for all eternity. That's so hawt.

Audrey | February 3, 2006, 11:37pm | #

"About a year or so ago I read an article--I'm pretty sure it was in "The Guardian"--about a women's prison in Israel that holds a bunch of failed female suicide bombers. The interviewer asked one woman exactly that--guys get 72 virgins, what's in it for you? The woman, using some very florid language, said that she would get to be the Head Virgin, the Fairest of the Fair, most Beloved of the Beloved, etc." So you get to be a sex slave for a terrorist. Women in Islam really are screwed, both literally and figuratively.

Audrey | February 3, 2006, 11:39pm | #

I miss read the article the first time around. I wonder if I�ll get a fatwa.

The Wine Commonsewer | February 4, 2006, 2:34am | #

Karen, you shoulda axed, I would have emailed you a copy of Sugar Sugar for free.

I love all the music references.

I was just listening to Boingo's Dead Mans Party mostly because they played it at a friend's funeral a couple of months ago (his request, btw). And speaking of Funeral for A Friend....best EJ song ever.

YuGottaBeKiddin | February 4, 2006, 12:08pm | #

Muslims burn Western flags and leaders in effigy constantly. I have seen the most vile and foul cartoons against Jews published regularly in mainstream Muslim press. Of course, no one seems to mind and I do not hear Jews threatening muslims with death -- or even lawsuits. lol. These people are ridiculous winers and crybabies. They "own" one sixth of the world's population and most of its oil. Guess they love Lenin's "A lie told often enough often becomes the truth."

dead_elvis | February 4, 2006, 12:19pm | #

and Def Leppard's little-remembered first album, On Through the Night.
I remember it every time I crack open a bottle of wine ;)

Crap, I just discovered Me and My Wine is *not* on On Through the Night. I hope they don't kick me out of the Rock Brigade!

Martin | February 4, 2006, 3:13pm | #

> For the record, if you have pictures of the president of Denmark sucking other men's bottoms, we'll be happy to publish those too.

I'm sorry. At the moment our Prime Minister refuses to kiss ass in the Middle East.

On the other hand, the Turkish newspaper, Tempo, made a drawing of Fogh Rasmussen in bed with Kurdish leader Öcalan.

Hope this helps.

Martin | February 4, 2006, 3:17pm | #

Hmmm. It seems you'll have to copy and paste the URL yourself. The image is not explicit.

http://i1.tinypic.com/n54ewy.jpg

Muhammad | February 4, 2006, 6:52pm | #

"What I remember reading about Aisha is that she married at 6 and the union was consummated when she was 9."

Nine?

I swear to you she looked like she was at least 14. And you should have seen the way she was dressed! The little slut, she was just asking for it!

GILMORE | February 4, 2006, 6:58pm | #

Dflynn =

Thanks for validating my speculation of your essential penis-hood. You'd rather pick on grammatical misreadings & me than address the point.

take a pill and talk about the topic. if you think Islam is more essentially awful a religion than christianity or any other abrahamic religion due to some isolated excerpts from the Koran, say so, point out which ones, and explain how they are interpreted by the "majority" of muslims. The fact that a very small minority use the koran to justify horrible things is no different than a small minority of other religious folk doing exactly the same. (well, aside from the head removal, but again, where's this located exactly in their book?)

So, thanks. And F Le Mur, you're a bigot too.

and both of you eat a dick in the meantime.

JG

mediageek | February 4, 2006, 7:25pm | #

"and both of you eat a dick in the meantime."

Homophobe.

Douglas Fletcher | February 4, 2006, 7:59pm | #

Sugar, Sugar

Well you shouldn't expect much of the song, since it was suppose to sung by a cartoon character, but...

I've always thought the lead singer on that song, Ron Dante, had a fantastic voice. His most famous other song was doing all the vocals on the Cuff Links' 'Tracey,' more bubblegum but unfortunatley that was the medium he fell into. Kind of like Paul Rogers of Free & Bad Company, a great voice singing a lot of songs that weren't really up to his level of ability IMHO.

Andrew Ian Dodge | February 5, 2006, 9:02am | #

It would not be right for us to publish jokes about Christianity or Hinduism.

But displaying vile, vicious and hateful cartoons about Jews is ok right? Muslims seem to have no problem publishing cartoons depiciting Jews and blood-of-baby sucking figures of evil. Like, oh I don't know, these for instance.

Dr Spock | February 5, 2006, 11:17am | #

Does anyone else find it strange that the bible (which is essentially the same for at least 1,000 years) states that there would always be conflict between the sons of Abraham, the arabs anmd the jews? Are they just fufilling the roles given to them by the writers of the bible?

Is this another example of how you shouldn't label your children? Seems like Abraham should have read some child psych books before he started raising kids.

v | February 6, 2006, 1:33pm | #

>I've always thought the lead singer on that song, Ron Dante, had a fantastic voice. His most famous other song was doing all the vocals on the Cuff Links' 'Tracey,'

Yeah, I love his vocals. Also, the backing vocals on 'Sugar Sugar' are really great.

'Tracy' was a big favorite in my family because that is my sister's name.

>Def Leppard's little-remembered first album, On Through the Night

I remember it, though High and Dry remains my favorite DL album.