Meanwhile in Iran...
Nick Gillespie | July 9, 2008, 10:42am
Iran has launched nine missiles, as a sign that it's got some push-back capabilities in response to possible attacks from Israel or the U.S., according to news reports.
So how are presidential candidates Sens. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) responding?
Here's Obama:
"I think what this underscores is the need for us to create a kind of policy that is putting the burden on Iran to change behavior. And, frankly, we just have not been able to do that over the last several years. Partly because we're not engaged in direct diplomacy."
Obama has also suggested we need economic sanctions against Iran. And here's McCain:
"Iran's most recent missile tests demonstrate again the dangers it poses to its neighbors and to the wider region, especially Israel. Ballistic missile testing coupled with Iran's continued refusal to cease its nuclear activities should unite the international community in efforts to counter Iran's dangerous ambitions."
More here.
And here's The New Yorker's Seymour Hersh on stepped-up covert operations against Iran, which were suspended (according to press reports) in the immediate run-up to the invastion of Iraq:
Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran, according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources. These operations, for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush, and are designed to destabilize the country's religious leadership. The covert activities involve support of the minority Ahwazi Arab and Baluchi groups and other dissident organizations. They also include gathering intelligence about Iran's suspected nuclear-weapons program.
More here.
reason on "the next Iranian Revolution."
Tom | July 9, 2008, 1:22pm | #
Some thoughts on Iran comments here:
1 - We try to talk to Iran all the time. The fact is they don't want to talk.
2 - We can devistate Iran anytime we want via military action. Something most people worldwide, and especially here, don't realize is the complete dominance in conventional warfare the US currently has. Most people, even alot of misinformed European military folks in my experience, seem to think it is a matter of country X having 3 of something and the US having 30 of that same item. In reality, the best armed countries have .5 of something and the US has 3000. Also their .5 is old and the US equipment is brand new in comparison. Occupying the country is another issue entirely. Screwing them over is easy.
3 - Iran's proxy activities in Lebanon (Hezbollah), Palestine (Hamas), Iraq (Al Sadr) and support for terror activities in general are shifting from the annoying to the problem stage.
4 - Iran's development of medium range missiles and continued development of a nuclear capability need to be checked. Wrecking their infrastructure would be a good way to send that message.
5 - Privately, the Arabs would really appreciate it if we attacked Iran. Despite the public outrage, privately ALL of the Arab regimes outside of Iraq and Palestine were greatly relieved when the US invaded Iraq. You could practically hear the sign of relief coming out of the Saudis all the way from Jerusalem. These people were terrified Iraq would come after them next following Saddam's earlier escapades in Kuwait and Iran. These same regimes are equally terrified of an empowered Iran and a fearful US.
6 - Taking down Iran would remove the last power in the Middle East with true regional aspirations. Sure the world would be left with a bunch of childish dictatorships in the region, but no one with any real power projection ability in the region would be left to create havoc.
7 - Iran has relatively limited resources to throw into their various criminal and terror resources worldwide and would easy be cowed by damaging their economic base militarily. Iran is basically a poor country that has gotten away with schnanigans, because no one has caused them any real pain yet. Blowing up all of their front line military assets in an afternoon and taking down their gasoline refineries would be an easy way to tie up their remaining cash on things they actually need.
George | July 9, 2008, 1:26pm | #
Tom, Tom, Tom - you sound like someone working for the mainstream media or one of the political parties spinning facts wildly.
Try some real truths:
Which country in the Middle East actually possesses nuclear weapons?
Israel.
Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty?
Israel.
Which country in the Middle East refuses to allow international inspections of its nuclear facilities?
Israel.
Which countries in the Middle East have called for the region to be a nuclear-free zone?
The Arab countries and Iran.
Which country in the Middle East occupies land belonging to other people?
Israel, which occupies a piece of Lebanon, a larger piece of Syria, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.
Which country in the Middle East has for 60 years refused to allow refugees to return to their homes and refused to consider compensation to them for their lost property?
Israel.
Which country has roads on which citizens who are Arab may not drive and housing developments where Arabs may not live?
Israel.
Which country in the region has violated more United Nations resolutions than any other?
Israel. The United States has on more than one occasion gone to war ostensibly to enforce U.N. Security Council resolutions, but when it comes to resolutions directed against Israel, the U.S. is like the amoral monkey that sees, hears and says nothing. That raises the question of who's the dog and who's the tail?
Which country in the region has in the past been led by men who at one time were terrorists with a price on their heads?
Israel. Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir once led the Stern Gang and ordered, among other things, the assassination of Count Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat working for the United Nations. Former Prime Minister Menachem Begin led the Irgun, a terrorist gang that among other things blew up one wing of the King David Hotel, killing nearly 100 people.
Which country in the Middle East openly employs assassination against its political enemies?
Israel. There have been assassinations carried out by some of the Arab governments, but they usually don't own up to them. Israel has created a euphemism that the suck-up American press has readily adopted: "targeted killings." A British journalist told me once, "The Palestinians have a talent for picking bad leaders, and the Israelis have a talent for murdering their good ones."
What are the top five countries from which we import oil?
Here they are in order of volume:
Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Nigeria and Venezuela. The next time you hear some blowhard politician ranting about how the Arabs control our oil imports, remind him or her of the facts. By far, a majority of oil imports come from non-Arab countries.
Which country in the region receives an annual gift of $3 billion or more from Congress?
Israel.
Which foreign-aid recipient is the only one allowed to receive its aid in a lump sum and which routinely invests part of it in U.S. Treasuries so that taxpayers pay them interest on the taxpayers' gift?
Israel.
Which country in the Middle East has the most powerful lobby in the U.S.?
Israel.
Which country in the Middle East are most American politicians, journalists and academics afraid to criticize?
Israel.
On behalf of which country has the U.S. vetoed the largest number of U.N. Security Council resolutions?
Israel.
What country do the people in the region consider the world's biggest hypocrite?
The United States.
Which countries in the Middle East have attacked U.S. ships in international waters?
Iraq and Israel. A lone Iraqi plane fired one missile at a U.S. ship by mistake. The Iraqi government quickly compensated the U.S. In 1967, Israeli airplanes and torpedo boats attacked the USS Liberty, killing 34 Americans. The U.S. government declared it an accident even before the ship limped into port, and to this day Congress has never held a public hearing and allowed the survivors to tell their story. Their story, by the way, is that the attack was deliberate. Israel compensated the families of those who were killed, but resisted for years paying compensation for the ship.
George | July 9, 2008, 1:34pm | #
NoNameGuy - if you think there's nothing criminal about what AIPAC has done and is doing, you haven't been paying attention.
Mind you, THEY don't want you to.
Here is but a sample.
AFP quoted the March 15, 2002 issue of the Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in America, which said “Despite angry denials by Israel and its American supporters, reports that Israel was conducting spying activities in the U.S. may have a grain of truth, the Forward has learned,” with assuredness that “both French and Fox reports were dismissed by Israel and its supporters, and received limited coverage in the American media.” [AP story on Le Monde spy reports was spiked & Cameron’s four-part series was removed from FoxNews.com.]
British intelligence & military analysis publication Jane’s Information Group reported on the absence of coverage in the American media on the “explosive story of the huge network of Israeli spies that made headlines around the world…reports of Israeli ‘art students’ calling on DEA employees across the country began as early as 2000 and continued through June, 2001,” according to AFP.
The independent AFP said “What is not clear is what the ring of more than 120 agents was up to and why some Israelis linked to the attacks in New York and Washington, DC were allowed to flee or were sent back to Israel after 9/11 on visa violations, rather than being charged and prosecuted.
According to other reports, alleged lead “hijacker” Mohammed Atta lived at 3389 Sheridan St. in Hollywood, Florida while a team of Israeli operatives lived a few blocks away at 4220 Sheridan.
In perhaps an even more controversial issue, convicted and imprisoned former Ohio GOP House member Bob Ney, then-chairman of the House Administration Committee, approved a 2002 license for an Israeli telecommunications company to install equipment to improve cell phone reception in the U.S. Capitol building and adjacent House office buildings where all legislative and many military decisions are debated.
Morat20 | July 9, 2008, 1:41pm | #
The "they don't even have aircraft carriers" comment is pretty stupid.
Aircraft carriers are for force projection -- and they're delicate, which is why they're surrounded by rings of anti-missile and anti-sub defenses.
As noted above, war games using projected Iranian assets to build the Opposition Force have successfully inflicted heavy losses on US naval assets. There have been at least two that were notoriously restarted and the Red Team forced to disallow certain tactics. (Suicide boats and absolute refusal to use tappable communications links).
Iran's air-defenses are rather deep and advanced -- not as good as ours, but latest generation Russian stuff, and sheer numbers have a power all their own. (And Iran has a LOT of such things. Oil wealth can buy a lot).
They can make gaining air control a painful prospect, and after two wars against a badly gimped military (Iraq), I don't think the US public is terribly aware of how different it can go.
Iran also has a large number of surface-to-surface missile capabilities that can be brought to bear against US Naval assets.
They also have modern (if non-nuclear) subs, which are quite capable of causing naval assets a very bad day, even if they decide not to play games with sea mines or using small boats.
Most importantly, Iran is very large and shares a border with Iraq. They're quite capable of making devestating strikes against US forces and US supply lines while the bulk of our air assets are tasked elsewhere. I suspect that Iraqis might also join the fun.
Effectively: Our Air Force can, ultimately, gain control of the skies over Iran. It will not be the cakewalk Iraq war. Our Navy will ultimatly prevail, but the odds of them doing so unscathed and without allowing Iran to effectively close the Straits are pretty low.
And the entire time we're doing THAT, our Army's ass is hanging out in the breeze. All their heavy stuff (from anti-air to tanks) is stateside, and they're surrounded by a bunch of people who will probably consider this a good time to vent their displeasure.
Only the King or Morons would allow this to escalate to full on bombing, which is why I'm certain it'll happen.
