Clinton to Dems: "I Want to Be Next in Line When Obama Gets Shot"

Well no, that isn't what she said, but it sure as hell sounded like it:

Hillary Clinton today brought up the assassination of Sen. Robert Kennedy while defending her decision to stay in the race against Barack Obama.

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it," she said, dismissing calls to drop out.

This comes on the heels of Mike Huckabee's assassination joke, but at least that gaffe felt like an actual joke. Clinton sounds like she's strategizing. And her apology isn't very helpful. After claiming she merely meant that campaigns sometimes drag all the way to June -- as though the nomination process in 1968, a year when it was still possible to enter the race at the convention itself, has much to tell us about the 2008 election -- she apologized to...the Kennedys:

“I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and in particular the Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever.

“My view is that we have to look to the past to our leaders who have inspired us, give us a lot to live up to, and I’m honored to hold Senator Kennedy’s seat in the United States Senate from the state of New York and have the highest regard for the Kennedy family,” she said.

Of all the reasons someone might be put off by her remark, the possibility that RFK's family might be offended is not exactly at the top of the list.

Comments

joe | May 23, 2008, 9:40pm | #

You stay classy, Hillary Clinton.

Chris Potter | May 23, 2008, 9:45pm | #

And her apology isn't very helpful.

It's not very grammatical either. "I regret that if my remark..." should either be that or if. I'm sure she means "if", because then she's not admitting that it was offensive.

Jim | May 23, 2008, 9:56pm | #

Caught in another lie.

Why did she say it? She is an intelligent calculated person that will do anything to win, including helping John McCain win, which would allow her to say, "I told you so. Elect me now."

The media tonight are being much too kind.

Hillary Clinton made the same statement about Robert Kennedy's assassination a few months ago, which further shows her apology was false. She did not know about Ted's tumor the last time she said it.

"The Kennedys have been much on my mind the last days because of Senator Kennedy," she added, referring to Sen. Edward M. Kennedy’s recent diagnosis of a brain tumor. "I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and in particular the Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever."

Keith Olbermann went through the different times she referred to Bobby Kennedy. He blasted her tonight, in my opinion, very much deserved, every word. Actually, I think Keith was still to nice in his word choices. Check out his site later for the video clip.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pa85uo1QyGw
Countdown: Special Comment May 23, 2008 Part 2
Part 1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sny8VfgcjaI

Chris Potter | May 23, 2008, 9:56pm | #

And of course, the media aren't even questioning her "apology" -- they're so used to the gaffe-apology cycle that they don't even stop and ask if the two have anything to do with each other.

On the NewsHour, David Brooks was trying to make the excuse that she's just tired from doing so much talking during the long campaign. That's BS. Those of us who've worked in a customer service job 45 hours a week for months on end between vacations know that you have to always think before you speak to make sure you don't say the wrong thing and piss off a customer -- whether it's the week after your vacation or it's been 30 weeks. Are you telling me that someone running for the highest office in the country should be held to a lower standard?

John | May 23, 2008, 9:57pm | #

Those conspiracy theories about Vince Foster don't seem so far-fetched now.

Brandybuck | May 23, 2008, 10:11pm | #

For the past 8 years I've heard dozens of complaints about "Bush-isms", those verbal slips of the tongue he is so infamous for. Democrat pundits loved to point out those slips as proof that he was unfit for the job. They did the same thing earlier with Quayle and Reagan.

If the Democrats believe that verbal mislocution is evidence that one should not hold office, then why the fsck are they giving Hillary a pass?!?! Surely it's not the old "double standard" excuse, because the Dems keep telling me they're too noble to engage in that. I guess it must be that they're not paying any attention to Hillary.

p.s. I am **NOT** defending Bush, Quayle or Reagan. Holding the Democrats to the same standard they demand of Republicans is not being partisan.

joe | May 23, 2008, 10:12pm | #

I think she was just offering another one in the string of lame excuses she gives for staying in the race - June isn't late! - and she put her foot in her mouth.

Nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to hear it when you're running against Barack Obama.

Dirty Laundry Diva | May 23, 2008, 10:13pm | #

Another enlightening yet not so surprising slip of the tongue! Good job Hillary!

joe | May 23, 2008, 10:15pm | #

Brandybuck, she didn't misspeak at all. There wasn't any grammatical slip or anything. She said exactly what she was saying.

This isn't "putting food on your family." She meant this, and it's perfectly clearly put.

Eddy | May 23, 2008, 10:18pm | #

Has anyone heard from Vegas, do the odds of Obama getting shot go up dramatically if Hillary is next in line? Not that I would gamble online or anything.

madpad | May 23, 2008, 10:26pm | #

And here I thought Hillary was consistently trailing Obama because of rampant sexism by the media and the Democratic party.

prolefeed | May 23, 2008, 10:28pm | #

As another 20 superdelegates rush to declare for Obama ...

Vampire Bat | May 23, 2008, 10:44pm | #

sad thing is . . . she expressed what many of my friends and coworkers have said over the past few months . . . white and black alike. There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to the Presidency alive. This is common and not altogether strange.
However . . . for the Grand Mame to say it is, well, tacky and downright appalling. Especially when it seems like she is saying " I cannot wait until the black guy gets shot and I am in first place again"!

Joshua Corning | May 23, 2008, 10:54pm | #

I saw the video from a drudge link...

I do not see it. She wants to keep going and the most recent examples are Clinton and Bobby.

Nothing to see here carry on.

and Weigel get out of the kool aid she is all ready dead and i called it when Romney was still in the race....no need for you to help push.

joshua corning | May 23, 2008, 10:56pm | #

There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to the Presidency alive. This is common and not altogether strange.

Oh bullshit.

Kolohe | May 23, 2008, 10:58pm | #

I do not see it. She wants to keep going and the most recent examples are Clinton and Bobby.

Except there are more recent examples than Bobby, right? For instance, Ted?

John-David | May 23, 2008, 10:58pm | #

joe,

I know you're at least slightly partisan, but it seemed like you were almost sad that Hillary made that statement (Nobody wants to hear it when you're running against Barack Obama.) I almost get the impression you've resigned yourself to the fact that the Dems have destroyed their chances this year. Me, I'm a little more hopeful that Obama can win the general against Old Man McCain, but for some reason I get a sense that you think the Dems, thanks to Hillary, are doomed.

Jesse Walker | May 23, 2008, 11:00pm | #

There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to the Presidency alive.

Yes, quite a bit of it. That's why it's really creepy for her to be talking like she has a contingency plan for the event.

Jumbie | May 23, 2008, 11:07pm | #

Judging from the video, this actually seems to be a rare genuine, non-calculated, mistatement from Hillary that popped out while she was concentratinfg on making an unrelated point.

The only other alternative is that this was a line delivered by a helluva smooth actor.

Which I think we can discount, because we know from the crying in New Hampshire that she's not a good actor.

sage | May 23, 2008, 11:10pm | #

Well, after hearing that, and only because of that, I do not want to see her as president.

Fuck that guy.

P Brooks | May 23, 2008, 11:18pm | #

If she ends up as Vice President, Obama would be a fool to ever precede her down a flight of stairs.

R C Dean | May 23, 2008, 11:21pm | #

There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to the Presidency alive.

Its a combination of the stereotypical/archetypal connection between messiah and martyr. Since Obama is a messiah, it stirs up fears he will be a martyr as well.

And also a reflection of the bigotry that coastal elites (who support Obama) have toward those stupid "clingers" who just want hop on the O-train.

T Thompson | May 23, 2008, 11:45pm | #

I think Hillary should just drop out of senate.
I didn't like the comment about RFK. I don't like violence or confortations, and that comment no matter what the intention was should
have never came out of her mouth.
I think she should resign.

lower case j | May 23, 2008, 11:47pm | #

Who's more likely to die in his first term in office - the US's first mixed-race president (and I think 5th youngest, behind Grover Cleavland) or it's oldest president?

Syd | May 23, 2008, 11:56pm | #

Joshua Corning | May 23, 2008, 10:54pm | #
I saw the video from a drudge link...

I do not see it. She wants to keep going and the most recent examples are Clinton and Bobby.

Clinton's the most recent example, but there are others since 1968. The Democratic nominations of 1972 and 1980 and the Republican of 1976, for example.

Jon H | May 24, 2008, 12:00am | #

"Yes, quite a bit of it. That's why it's really creepy for her to be talking like she has a contingency plan for the event."

Especially since no such contingency plan is necessary.

I mean, if something should happen, it's not like they're going to put every convention-goer's name into a big hat and pick someone at random. There's no need for her to be saying "I GOT DIBS!" She certainly doesn't need to be aggressively campaigning to take advantage of a tragedy, and certainly doesn't need to be talking up MI/FL and comparing that situation to Zimbabwe.

Joshua Corning wrote: "I do not see it. She wants to keep going and the most recent examples are Clinton and Bobby."

Er, no, Kennedy took it to the convention in 1980.

And 1968 is totally unlike today, so it's not comparable. The primary season started in *March*, in New Hampshire. RFK only entered after that. By June, only 17 or so primaries had taken place. June included big primaries like California that could make a difference. And Johnson, the incumbent had dropped out.

Today, there are no primaries big enough to make a difference for Clinton, so the only reason to stay in to June is to lend some spurious weight to her absurd, hypocritical "count every vote in MI & FL" scheme, which won't help her anyway.

Honestly, given that she said something similar in March, I have to think she and Bill have been hoping an assassination would happen to get rid of the interloper who spoiled her 'inevitability'.

Saddened | May 24, 2008, 12:05am | #

For those who doubt that Hillary-hatred is a psychological disorder, consider the abject stupidity of the title and of the commenters. Hillary made a couple of historical comparisons to the Democratic primary lasting until June (Robert Kennedy agrees with her on this.) You idiots accuse her of faking her own tears, of being a man and of being a would-be-murderer. Stupid is as stupid does, America. We get what we deserve.

chl | May 24, 2008, 12:13am | #

Legendary libertarian blogger Kip Esquire says that politicians are moral defectives. Not that this was ever in doubt, but the above is just more confirmation

Jack | May 24, 2008, 12:15am | #

I've had real life Clinton supporters tell me that the reason they were backing her was because it was obvious that Obama would be assassinated and so I should be "smart" and back the candidate who would actually live to make it into office.

madpad | May 24, 2008, 12:26am | #

You idiots accuse her of faking her own tears, of being a man and of being a would-be-murderer.

Ah...no, Saddened. No one did any such thing. Not on this thread, anyway.

Listen, it's o.k. for you to like Clinton. But a lot of others (me for example) don't.

It does NOT mean that we're sexist, stupid OR that we have a psychological disorder. It simply means that we don't like her for president...and missteps such as this one (incidentally the latest in a long string of them) only confirm that.

Mike P | May 24, 2008, 12:33am | #

I'm actually surprised to find that some are shocked to hear that a lot of people are worried about Obama's security. As a black male, it's certainly crossed my mind more than once and I am under no illusions that Obama is coming to "save me". The fact that he ended up getting his secret service detail at an earlier point in the campaign than any other candidate in history should have been a tip off. You can say all black people are conspiracy theorists (no Rev. Wright jokes, please) but after the murders of Medgar Evers, MLK, the Kennedy's and others who died in the civil rights struggle (not to even mention the contemporary and increasingly naked racial opposition to Obama's campaign) you'll have to forgive a lot of folks (black, white or other) for not being so willing to just overlook Sen. Clinton's remarks.

Jim Walsh | May 24, 2008, 12:45am | #

The thing in my mind is what this says about her ability (or lack thereof) to function articulately when the pressure is really on:

"Madame President, the ICBM are cresting the poles...what do we do?"

"Hominahominahomina..."

Jon H | May 24, 2008, 12:59am | #

" You can say all black people are conspiracy theorists (no Rev. Wright jokes, please) but after the murders of Medgar Evers, MLK, the Kennedy's and others who died in the civil rights struggle (not to even mention the contemporary and increasingly naked racial opposition to Obama's campaign) you'll have to forgive a lot of folks (black, white or other) for not being so willing to just overlook Sen. Clinton's remarks."

Also, the "Muslim" bullshit raises the risk - in addition to nutter anti-black racists, it creates the possibility that some unmedicated, Fox-addled nutjob could decide it's his mission from Jesus to save this 'Christian nation' from Obama, who (he believes) is a 'Moroccan Candidate' and stealth Muslim terrorist, etc, etc.

thoreau | May 24, 2008, 1:03am | #

And somewhere in Los Angeles, Federal Agent Jack Bauer has just received an urgent message from CTU, and he's breaking out the hacksaw and loading the gun to begin another 24 hours of hard work...

John C. Randolph | May 24, 2008, 1:06am | #

Hillary to Bill: "You idiot! What do you mean you forgot to pardon Sirhan Sirhan? Were you banging the fat chick that day? Asshole!"

-jcr

John C. Randolph | May 24, 2008, 1:09am | #

For those who doubt that Hillary-hatred is a psychological disorder,

Project much?

You're wearing your dog collar a little too tight, sunshine. As your dominatrix to loosen that for you.

-jcr

Jon H | May 24, 2008, 1:14am | #

Hillary to Bill: "You idiot! What do you mean you forgot to pardon Sirhan Sirhan? Were you banging the fat chick that day? Asshole!"

Bill to Hillary: "Don't worry, hon, I got the FALN terrorists I pardoned on speed dial. Just wait till Puerto Rico."

rm2muv | May 24, 2008, 1:17am | #

Shhhh. Anyone else hear the patter of little feet. Perhaps it's the sound of superdelegates finally seeing an opening to declare for Obama.

Jon H | May 24, 2008, 1:27am | #

Olbermann's 'special comment' tonight showed the track record of Clinton bringing this up, mentioning the assassination a few times, then changing to just saying Kennedy won California in June a couple of times, then going back to mentioning assassination.

And, weirdly, toward the beginning as he's ramping up his dudgeon, there's a loud 'pop' which visibly startles him a little.

Saddened | May 24, 2008, 1:39am | #

Madpad, are you blind? Nobody has accused Hillary of being a murderer? What about this comment from John - "Those conspiracy theories about Vince Foster don't seem so far-fetched now." Then Jon H fantasizes a conversation between the Clinton's where they debate on the best way to kill Obama.

My "affection" for Hillary Clinton is beside the point. I argued that there is a psychopathic hatred for this woman that goes beyond any legitimate political disagreements (I have many such disagreements with her myself.)

Obviously, this argument still stands.

Lost in Paradise | May 24, 2008, 2:26am | #

Worked for LBJ.

prolefeed | May 24, 2008, 2:59am | #

So, if some deranged Clinton supporter takes this as a suggestion and takes out Obama, anyone think Clinton would have a chance in hell of winning the general election?

Or, if some deranged McCain supporter decides to take out Obama (while making it look like it was done by a Clinton supporter), anyone think Clinton would have a chance in hell of winning the general election?

Wow, talk about screwing yourself over ...

Jon H | May 24, 2008, 3:04am | #

"So, if some deranged Clinton supporter takes this as a suggestion and takes out Obama, anyone think Clinton would have a chance in hell of winning the general election?"

Before or after the police take her in for questioning?

prolefeed | May 24, 2008, 3:11am | #

I can see the hit pieces now if Obama gets taken down -- playing this clip over and over, followed by the voiceover -- "McCain -- because he's not a sociopathic assassin ...

I'm Barack Obama, and I approve this message.

Paid for by the committee to elect Obama."

joshua corning | May 24, 2008, 5:10am | #

Except there are more recent examples than Bobby, right? For instance, Ted?

Ted ran for president?

And he was still in the primary race during an election year until June???

When did this happen?

Oh i get it.....you did not actually see the video of Clinton saying what she said and so have no idea what the fuck you are talking about....

rechoboam | May 24, 2008, 5:57am | #

""So, if some deranged Clinton supporter takes this as a suggestion and takes out Obama, anyone think Clinton would have a chance in hell of winning the general election?"

Before or after the police take her in for questioning?"

Uh, I think if Clinton were "next in line" that would be the best life insurance possible for whichever person occupies top spot.

Untermensch | May 24, 2008, 5:59am | #

When did this happen?

Try 1980 when the nomination wasn't decided until the convention on 12. August, which last time I checked, does come after June.

If you're going to insult people for getting history wrong it usually helps if you know what you're talking about yourself...

Untermensch | May 24, 2008, 6:00am | #

By the way, joshua, there is this nifty thing called the "Internet" where you can find out all kinds of facts with minimal effort...

Untermensch | May 24, 2008, 6:01am | #

(And all sorts of rubbish too, it's true…)

Jon H | May 24, 2008, 6:09am | #

"Uh, I think if Clinton were "next in line" that would be the best life insurance possible for whichever person occupies top spot"

Hillary is on record talking about assassinations several times over two months, and is in a position to benefit. If anything happens to Obama, she's probably going to get a great deal of scrutiny from people with badges.

leTerrassier | May 24, 2008, 6:16am | #

"...there is a psychopathic hatred for this woman..."
Please do not use the term 'psychopathic' unless you know what it means, and equating it with 'psychological' (by which I suppose you mean 'psychiatric' or mental illness) disorders is just offensive. Maybe you do not know the difference between 'psychotic' (suffering from psychosis- in this case I would guess your getting at the anti-Hillary crowd being delusional), and 'psychopathic' (being a psychopath or sociopath who by nature are rarely actually psychotic). Learn to use words correctly or I will take them away.

Kris | May 24, 2008, 6:44am | #

See, I don't see it.

Elemenope | May 24, 2008, 7:15am | #

So, if some deranged [Clinton/McCain] supporter takes this as a suggestion and takes out Obama...

There's no need to finish that sentence...every possible correct answer is simply a synonym for "utter pandemonium follows".

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 8:21am | #

For those who doubt that Hillary-hatred is a psychological disorder

No, I saw it in the DSM-V.* If a person distrusts Hillary Clinton, there can't possibly be a rational reason.

*Not actually completed, or published yet.

JW | May 24, 2008, 9:30am | #

My "affection" for Hillary Clinton is beside the point.

Actually no, it isn't. It's the only point you have.

For the love of gravy, more than half of the Democrats don't trust her. Yeah, it's gotta be the VRWC at work.

Episiarch | May 24, 2008, 9:37am | #

Uh, guys, you do realize "Saddened" is actually Hillary, right?

Saddened | May 24, 2008, 9:48am | #

joshuacomming - I'm very familiar with Ted Kennedy dragging the primary out 'till August. Problem is, he ended up losing. Would be silly of her to bring that up in defense of her continuing her bid. "Yea, I realize I'm going to lose but it'd be fun to drag it out a few more months."

To JW - again, any affection I may have for Hillary is completely beside the point. Mike Huckabee made a poorly conceived joke about Obama that made a DIRECT connection b/w him and a possible assassination and people generally didn't see any malice in that. I can't think of any other American politician who inspires such loathing (way beyond "distrust.")

and Episiarch - yes, I am Hillary. I often comment on Reason's message boards.

SIV | May 24, 2008, 9:49am | #

There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to the Presidency alive. This is common and not altogether strange.

I know a lot of Hillary supporters don't like Obama and say they will vote for McCain if he is the Democrat Party nominee.Is the hatred so extreme they are suffering from "Obama Derangement Syndrome" ? Or is there some "Valerie Solanis Society" terror group out there?

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 10:05am | #

I can't think of any other American politician who inspires such loathing (way beyond "distrust.")

The Republicans hate her because there is still a lot of leftover resentment for the Clinton Administration (for reasons mostly partisan but sometimes legitimate).
Many Democrats dislike/distrust her because they feel her ambition and not too uncommon (among politicians) sense of (is "entitlement" the word?) self-importance led her to run a campaign that was far from unobjectionable. Not that Obama or McCain are beyond reproach (far from it), but there has been a perceptible aura of nastiness and disingenuousness emanating from the Clinton campaign (IMHO).

JohnD | May 24, 2008, 10:07am | #

you people are making a big deal of nothing.

Elemenope | May 24, 2008, 10:19am | #

The Democratic Primary Process: it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

madpad | May 24, 2008, 10:26am | #

I argued that there is a psychopathic hatred for this woman that goes beyond any legitimate political disagreements

That some people's hatred of Hillary is so extreme as to be irrational doesn't mean that ALL people who dislike Hillary are stupid or crazy...which is pretty much the point you tried to make.

Just as you proclaim "Hillary Haters" as crazy, a large number of feminists lately are proclaiming that "Hillary Haters" are sexist. I don't deny that some people are misogynistic towards her. But, in my humble opinion, a larger number are simply turned off.

Rightly or wrongly, both Clintons have been almost relentless lightning rods of controversy and derision. And their responses to many of these episodes has often been fraught with dishonesty and crassness.

Is it any wonder that a lot of folks just don't want 4 to 8 more years of that? Sorry, Saddened, but that strikes me as a very rational, non-sexist thing.

Obama appears to have fewer skeletons in his closet. Add to that the fact that he has often taken a higher ground on controversial things compared to Clinton's more scrappy, "let's appeal to the lowest common denominator" approach (i.e. standard politics).

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 10:29am | #

madpad said what I was trying to say a lot better than I did.

LarryA | May 24, 2008, 10:38am | #

There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to the Presidency alive.

There is also the possibility Obama could shoot himself in the foot, actually get nailed by the media, and autodestruct. Given MSM coverage of earlier Democratic gaffes, however, it would have to be something truly bizarre.

madpad | May 24, 2008, 10:39am | #

Thanks, Art-P.O.G....appears we were writing on the same wavelength at the same time. Wonder twin powers...ACTIVATE!

madpad | May 24, 2008, 10:41am | #

Given MSM coverage of earlier Democratic gaffes, however, it would have to be something truly bizarre.

Not sure how to read that, LarryA.

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 11:03am | #

There is also the possibility Obama could shoot himself in the foot, actually get nailed by the media, and autodestruct.

Um, yeah. But I will say that there doesn't seem to be much "autodestruct" in his game.

JUDY | May 24, 2008, 11:12am | #

Pray tell me, OBAMA LIFE hasn't had comment's made, he must get alot of hate calls, e-mails, words, you can keep him fairly tale land and try to tell every one all is o.k., however you known your wrong, you have a long way to go with this and i for one has said the same thing, why should this women get out, it's the people choice, if i was Clinton i would go Independent and run like hell with it all...

madpad | May 24, 2008, 11:19am | #

Um, yeah. But I will say that there doesn't seem to be much "autodestruct" in his game.

Yeah...he is almost uncanny in his ability to avoid making offhand, glib remarks that nails him insincere or insensitive.

You know...the kind that Hillary has repeatedly made for the past 17 years.

Some Highlights...

1. "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas,"

2. "I have to confess that it's crossed my mind that you could not be a Republican and a Christian."

3. "These women are trash. Nobody’s going to believe them.”

4. "You all remember Mahatma Ghandi. He ran a gas station down in St. Louis."

5. “We are going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.”

6. “God bless the America we are trying to create.”

7. “I’m not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president.”

Jammer | May 24, 2008, 11:41am | #

Anyone who truly believes she meant she is staying in to take over if Obama is assassinated needs to have their meds checked, or go on meds asap.

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 11:48am | #

I guess she means to say that she's staying in because's she's "The Queen of Wishful Thinking"?

ktc2 | May 24, 2008, 11:51am | #

I thought it was just her way of declaring for the VP spot under Obama.

If he's smart he won't take her, she could off him for the office.

joe | May 24, 2008, 11:52am | #

John David, you greatly misjudge my point.

I think Obama is going to thrash McCain.

That wasn't sadness, just my impression of how Hillary's comment struck the ear.

Elemenope | May 24, 2008, 11:54am | #

Well, Jammer, I agree that if it were anyone else it would have just been read as an idiotic non sequitor, and taken on that basis as evidence that the one who uttered it was unqualified for the presidency. But, since it is Hillary, malevolence is insinuated, which when taken on that basis is evidence...that the one who uttered it is unqualified for the presidency.

And, FWIW, since Obama's untimely death is perhaps the only way in which it was likely that Clinton would ascend to become the party candidate, I can sort of understand the less than charitable reading of the comment.

joe | May 24, 2008, 12:05pm | #

Mike P,

I'm actually surprised to find that some are shocked to hear that a lot of people are worried about Obama's security.

I'm struck by the anger of certain commenters, that anyone (like, say, the Secret Service) would DARE consider it more likely that the first black person to be leading a presidential contest would be in greater danger than other candidates.

Obviously, there must be something wrong with you be think that. Probably, you just hate white people who don't live near the ocean.

Bramblyspam | May 24, 2008, 12:12pm | #

I've actually been wondering... if the dems have their convention, and Obama picks someone other than Hillary as his veep, and then Obama ends up dying before the election... who would be the democratic candidate? Hillary, who lost the primary? Or that veep candidate that nobody voted for and most people probably haven't even heard of?

Elemenope | May 24, 2008, 12:35pm | #

Bramblyspam,

I point you to my comment @ 7:15.

LevStrauss | May 24, 2008, 1:12pm | #

She went from Rocky to Ivan Drago in a month's time.

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 1:17pm | #

Hillary: "He is like a piece of iron."

SuperMike | May 24, 2008, 1:20pm | #

I think she was just offering another one in the string of lame excuses she gives for staying in the race - June isn't late! - and she put her foot in her mouth.

Wow, chalk one up for the history books: I actually agree with Joe. I'll even admit I'm something of an irrational Clinton-hater and I still see this as Joe does.

Between the shorter news cycle, our modern five-minute attention span(spiritual adviser hates whitey... bygones...), and the gamesmanship with moving primaries along, this thing really feels like it's been dragging on forever. Hillary's made a legitimate point that this is something of a historical anomaly.

As a side note, I'm beginning to think we should go back to the old ways and let a bunch of insignifcant small states go first so that the campaign doesn't stretch to two years.

SuperMine | May 24, 2008, 1:56pm | #

What I can't figure out: She wants something... What is it? It's not the 2008 nomination, there's no way. If it's an Obamassassination, then the smart move would have been to concede a while ago (so as to better step in as a brave champion in our time of national anguish)
Slate had floated some nonsense about a co-presidency a while back. (and if that's acceptable why not a triumverate?)
I think she's trying to either set something up for 2012, but I don't see how sticking around his helping her, or she's trying to extract some kind of serious concession from the party or Obama machine. Given the nature of our government, I'm not sure how she could make sure whatever it was stuck.
Alternatively, maybe the Dems have realized that any publicity is good publicity and the longer they drag this out, the more Obama's base will remain fervent enough to actually turn out in november. Maybe they want to repeatedly remind the Dems in swing states Florida and Michigan how bad it sucks to be ignored. Is the "campaign fatigue" even a real issue? Who cares if the voters in non-battleground New York, California, Illinois, Texas, etc. are sick of hearing about it?

Jennifer | May 24, 2008, 2:01pm | #

Goddammit, Hillary, buy yourself a dog and name it "Dignity" so that you'll finally have some. Seriously: if you're reduced to saying "Well, there's still a chance I can win this race if my opponent gets assassinated," you need to give it the hell up while you still have a few pathetic shreds of dignity remaining to wrap around you.

There are certain thoughts which politicians should NEVER utter, even if they come to mind. For example: do NOT say to a well-endowed woman "Whoa, honey, nice tits you got there." Do NOT say to a well-endowed man "Hey, is that a zucchini in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" And do NOT say to ANYBODY "I still have a chance in hell of winning this race if my opponent gets assassinated."

Think it if you want, but don't say it. Christ, an Asperger's kid on acid has better social skills than that.

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 2:02pm | #

Hillary: "I win for me! FOR ME!"

joe | May 24, 2008, 2:09pm | #

Lol, Jennifer. SO much win.

LevStrauss | May 24, 2008, 2:11pm | #

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 2:02pm | #

I was thinking more along the lines of:

"If he dies...he dies."

Jesse Walker | May 24, 2008, 2:14pm | #

yes, I am Hillary. I often comment on Reason's message boards.

And all this time I thought she was Lonewacko.

Daniel Reeves | May 24, 2008, 2:25pm | #

It would be pretty ironic and relieving if somebody assassinated Clinton.

Daniel Reeves | May 24, 2008, 2:26pm | #

OK, that last comment was cruel. Attempted to assassinate her.

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 2:26pm | #

I was thinking more along the lines of:

"If he dies...he dies."

I got that. But I could imagine Hillary saying other Drago quotes as well.

Jennifer | May 24, 2008, 3:12pm | #

I think she's trying to either set something up for 2012, but I don't see how sticking around his helping her, or she's trying to extract some kind of serious concession from the party or Obama machine. Given the nature of our government, I'm not sure how she could make sure whatever it was stuck.

I get the impression she's not even "trying" to do anything right now; she's backed into a corner and just thrashing about, unthinkingly, at random. Say anything! Throw any punch you can! Maybe you'll get lucky and hit a bullseye in the dark!

I vaguely remember reading a story on Fark or somewhere about some loathsome woman arrested for assault; the woman actually took an infant child and used it to bludgeon her boyfriend. Of course, she wasn't consciously thinking "I am going to be evil and use a baby as a blunt object"; she just went batshit crazy and wasn't thinking at all.

That's the impression I've been getting of Hillary lately. The question isn't "what the hell is she thinking" but "why the hell isn't she thinking?"

I really get the impression -- and I'll admit this is subjective on my part -- that she thinks the presidency is something America owes her for whatever reason. And Obama is an interloper stealing what is rightfully hers. So there she is, backed into a corner by a nation of thieving ingrates, and she can't get away so she's panicking, flailing her arms about and hoping against hope that she'll manage to knock out the Head Thief and get back to what is rightfully hers.

David E. Gallaher | May 24, 2008, 3:34pm | #

Has anybody explained why Billary is so sure staying in would guarantee her the nomination if Obama were to die? If I were a delegate I'd agitate for going back to square one. I'd want to see the convention actually choose the best candidate like they used to do. And I don't think they ought to nor would choose Billary.

dhex | May 24, 2008, 3:38pm | #

[quote]I can't think of any other American politician who inspires such loathing[/quote]

current president doesn't count?

back in the end of 2004 i remember seeing a somewhat famous panhandler on the f train late one night who started his usual spiel about needing money to get his spaceship back to jupiter (or whatever) and he ended his pitch with "and i promise i'll take george w. bush back with me!" the entire car roared with applause.

then some enterprising/drunk young man said "we could just use the money to pay a crackhead to murder the motherfucker!" it took a while for the applause for that to die down.

not that it's unwarranted, mind you. :)

Jennifer | May 24, 2008, 3:39pm | #

Has anybody explained why Billary is so sure staying in would guarantee her the nomination if Obama were to die?

Because she's convinced the nomination is rightfully hers, and she'd have it already if not for that interloper Obama.

prolefeed | May 24, 2008, 3:49pm | #

It appears that Hillary's pulling a Gore: never give up until you have a 0.0% chance of winning. If you're at 0.1% -- if the other person has not officially been nominated, with no ability to appeal the results, and has a non-zero chance of dying -- you keep relentlessly pushing forward. Because, dammit, they OWE you the presidency. How dare those ungrateful voters try to steal it from you!

Russ R | May 24, 2008, 3:53pm | #

My dislike for Mrs. Clinton has nothing to do with her gender, or her husband, or even her political positions (with which I almost universally disagree, however I don't consider a person's politics grounds for dislike).

I dislike Clinton because I can't trust her.

Her own history reads like one long rap sheet... Whitewater, cattle futures, White Hose travel office, FBI files. Coupled with that is her husband's list of controversies, (not that I'm shifting blame, but I can't bring myself to believe that she was unaware of ANY of the numerous scandals).

Secondly, I see her as being unprincipled and power-hungry, for example, her expanded role as First Lady, or her carpet-bagged Senate seat.

Furthermore, I can't believe anything that she says. She changes her position on issues to suit the trend. When she joined the Senate Armed Services committee, she wanted to be seen as "Tough on Defence", and repeatedly voted in favor of both Iraq and Afghanistan. Today, she's promoting herself as a peacenik, strongly opposed to the war she voted for.

Lastly, her campaign has reeked to me of scheming and tactics, while being extremely short on priniciple and candor.

The only thing that would make me happier than seeing her fail miserably in this campaign, would be seeing her thoroughly disgraced and reduced in stature to the level of outcasts like ex-Governor Spitzer, or Enron's Skilling & Lay. Even the thought of this makes me smile.

There is no joy like schadenfreude.

Saddened | May 24, 2008, 4:38pm | #

One thing I gotta say, leTerrassier was right. I said people have a "psychopathic" hatred of Hillary Clinton; I should have said "psychotic." I'm not implying any of you are murderers.

Learned something new.

To sum up my argument, I never argued that "ALL" of the people who oppose Hillary are disturbed/hate women/are irrational, etc. I, for example, have been against this war from the beginning and am furious at her for her vote. What I argued was that Hillary made an innocuous, if badly phrased remark, and Jesse Walker, like many others, twisted it as if she was encouraging a possible Obama assassination.

And some of the commentators here - I cited direct examples in my previous posts - described her as a murderer/man, etc.

So I concluded that there is something deeply irrational about this kind of hatred. I certainly haven't seen this directed at any other candidate.

It's been fun, ya'all.

Sen. Hillary Clinton.
Mt. Rushmore, SD

(No, not really.)

joe | May 24, 2008, 4:39pm | #

Clinton to Dems: "I Want to Be Next in Line When Obama Gets Shot"

Oh, Hillary. If we ever start a line like that, you won't be second.

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 4:46pm | #

So I concluded that there is something deeply irrational about this kind of hatred. I certainly haven't seen this directed at any other candidate.

You really ought to look around more. Also, to reiterate, there may be *rational* reasons why Hillary might draw (slightly) more ire than Obama or McCain.

joe | May 24, 2008, 4:51pm | #

There are certainly people with an irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton. They tend to veer off into sexist rants at the drop of a hat.

But that really has nothing to do with thinking that it's in poor taste to say that maybe your opponent - you know, the black guy who received so many death threats that the Secret Service took unprecedented steps to protect him - will be assassinated and you'll win the nomination.

Chris Potter | May 24, 2008, 4:53pm | #

So I concluded that there is something deeply irrational about this kind of hatred. I certainly haven't seen this directed at any other candidate.

Uh, you do realize that Reason's current editor-in-chief wrote an entire book about how terrible McCain is, right?

Neu Mejican | May 24, 2008, 4:54pm | #

Much ado about nuthin'

Chris Potter | May 24, 2008, 4:56pm | #

I don't even understand why she brings up the 1992 race -- Bill was already way ahead in delegates in May and June, and thanks to the proportional representation scheme there was no way for Jerry Brown or Paul Tsongas to catch up. So Obama is actually in Bill's position, and Hillary is in Jerry Brown's.

FatDrunkAndStupid | May 24, 2008, 5:43pm | #

The thing people are forgetting is that Obama dying and her continuing to campaign have nothing to do with each other. The primaries are nearly over and the two of them finished in a dead heat. If Obama dies, she's the nominee whether she sits out these last couple races or not. The reason she's still fighting is not because he might be literally assassinated, but the chance he could be politically assassinated. Obama still hasn't gotten any serious media scrutiny. What if this Michelle Obama "whitey" speech rumor turned out true? What if something comes out of Rezko? What if somebody uncovers a racist, Wright like speech that Obama himself gave? What if he make more "white people cling to guns and religion" speeches? The bottom line is that Obama didn't win the votes necessary to secure the nomination. He has to rely on the Superdelegates. And since Superdelegate time doesn't happen till Convention, that means he has to go survive another couple months without screwing up. Hillary would be an idiot to just let him run out the clock. Make him earn it. Use your timeouts.

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 5:59pm | #

Obama still hasn't gotten any serious media scrutiny.

Compared to whom?

Chris Potter | May 24, 2008, 6:00pm | #

FDAS,

I don't have a problem with Hillary staying in the race -- heck, I'm not even a Democrat, why would I care? But that doesn't excuse this comment.

It would be like a car salesman trying to get a housewife to spend more than she can afford on a car by saying, "maybe your husband will die soon and you'll get the life insurance payments." I mean, it's true that that's possible, but there are some things you just don't say. Hillary doesn't seem to realize that.

Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 6:14pm | #

And FDAS, all the scenarios you described involve something negative happening to Obama or Obama doing something negative. It almost seems as if Hillary has stopped delivering much in the way of positive rhetoric and has grown increasingly combative and acrimonious.

No, I'm not saying Obama's got a halo glowing on his head, but it seems to me Clinton's been running more of a "Cobra Command" sort of campaign.

Seamus | May 24, 2008, 7:17pm | #

It does NOT mean that we're sexist, stupid OR that we have a psychological disorder. It simply means that we don't like her for president...and missteps such as this one (incidentally the latest in a long string of them) only confirm that.

Oh, come on, now. I don't like Hillary, either, but it's fairly obvious to me that she was just saying that there's no good reason to consider the nomination wrapped up by May, that campaigns used to go right on up to the convention, which weren't coronations but actual meetings to decide on the nominee. If she was speaking off the cuff, it would not be surprising for her to remember one of the more shocking events that she lived through (I was in 9th grade in June 1968, and believe me, I remember being pretty affected), and to mention it as illustration of the fact that people could still be campaigning hard in early June. Heck, Eugene McCarthy, my candidate that year, kept fighting all the way to the Chicago convention at the end of August. Maybe that would have been a better example to cite, and if she'd been delivering a prepared speech, maybe she should be faulted for not picking it, but fer crying out loud, the reaction to this shows that people are just looking for excuses to be offended.

BTW, it never even occurred to me that Hillary was saying anything about Obama's getting shot. If anything, I'd have thought she was likening herself, not Obama, to Kennedy.

Chris Potter | May 24, 2008, 8:03pm | #

If she was speaking off the cuff, it would not be surprising for her to remember one of the more shocking events that she lived through

Watch the Olbermann video upthread. She's mentioned the '92 and '68 campaign in quick succession several times over the past few months, with almost identical phrasing. This wasn't an off-the-cuff thing, it's part of her script.

Now, I don't think she's contemplating the possibility of Obama getting whacked either -- it's just another what-the-fuck-is-she-thinking moment. As I said above, a minimum wage worker at McDonald's would get canned for making a similar gaffe when speaking to a customer; why should we hold politicians to lower standards?

Chris Potter | May 24, 2008, 8:07pm | #

I also don't think the current calls for her to step down are related to the month, but rather to the delegate count. As someone mentioned above, the nomination wasn't wrapped up yet in those years because there were still big primaries to be held. That's not the case this year -- the California primary she references as a tipping point was held two months ago.

John C. Randolph | May 24, 2008, 8:08pm | #

It would be pretty ironic and relieving if somebody assassinated Clinton.

That would be a tragedy for our country. If Hillary were assassinated, who would there be to discredit all the pinko big-government initiatives she's been pushing?

Without Hillary, we might actually end up with socialized medicine.

-jcr

John C. Randolph | May 24, 2008, 8:11pm | #

I don't think she's contemplating the possibility of Obama getting whacked either

If it had happened near the beginning of the campaign, she could have pulled a Jesse Jackson move and tried to capitalize on it. She might possibly be delusional enough to think that a dead Obama means that the dems would rally around her, although at this point they'd be more likely to blame her than the assassin.

-jcr

stuck in 200 | May 25, 2008, 1:01am | #

I've actually been wondering... if the dems have their convention, and Obama picks someone other than Hillary as his veep, and then Obama ends up dying before the election... who would be the democratic candidate? Hillary, who lost the primary? Or that veep candidate that nobody voted for and most people probably haven't even heard of?

The last time something like this happened ('72, when Eagleton had to drop out as the dem VP candidate after a history of clinical depression and electroshock treatments surfaced), the DNC ratified McGovern's choice Sargent Shriver as the new VP candidate. I would imagine something similar is still in the rules - no one automatically gets moved into the slot.

What might get more interesting is if something happens between the electoral college vote and inaguration - does the VP elect automatically step up if neither has taken office yet?

ed | May 25, 2008, 8:46am | #

I'd be upping Obama's Secret Service detail, just in case. Hillary is desperate.
Not that she personally would kill him. I assume.

Guy Montag | May 25, 2008, 8:59am | #

Mrs. Clinton was obviously making a calendar statement, pointing out that Dem. candidates frequently run past June.

The real bigots and other undesirables are the ones who jump to some Sen. Obama connection at the mention of a shooting.

Tis the silly season in politics.

Art-P.O.G. | May 25, 2008, 9:03am | #

The real bigots and other undesirables are the ones who jump to some Sen. Obama connection at the mention of a shooting.

You're right. It's crazy to consider how Hillary might think about Sen. Obama.