Those Other Republican Candidates

Those few, hardy libertarians who aren't lining up with Ron Paul occasionally make the case for Fred Thompson or John McCain as the small government-er's next hope. (Not everybody agrees with Matt Welch, or thinks that medical marijuana is a pressing issue, or worries about the First Amendment...) Michael Crowley (who interviewed Brian Doherty for a Paul piece) is on the ground with McCain in New Hampshire:

[I]n response to an audience question about George Bush's reliance on "signing statements" to get around acts of Congress, McCain vowed that he would never use them. "It's wrong. It should not be done," he said. "I would never issue a signing statement. I would only veto or sign a bill into law."

An honest answer? The first attempt by a Republican to peel back some Washington-hating Paul voters? It's an ancillary issue, anyway, because. McCain's campaigning on the troop surge.

Meanwhile, John Frank follows Fred Thompson on the Florida campaign trail and... well...

The meager crowd, no more than 100, waited in the cool bright morning for twice as long as the speech itself lasted. Just feet from the stage, along the ledge of the pier, a blowfish rotted in the sun.

It's not just an anecdote. It's really bad.

In May, before Thompson had even entered the race, the Panhandle represented the backbone of his support. The Times poll then showed him stronger in that region that any other, solidly in third behind Giuliani and Arizona Sen. John McCain.

But six months later—after a staff shakeup, panned campaign announcement, news he lobbied for an abortion rights group and an overall lackluster campaign—Thompson has fallen from grace. The Panhandle is now his second-weakest region, with only 6 percent of voters there supporting him.

I figured this might happen. There are miles and miles of daylight between Thompson and Huckabee on policy. Thompson is a Club for Growth supply-sider, Jack Kemp meets Horatio Alger. Huckabee is, as Jonah Goldberg points out, a progressive, "the bastard child of Lou Dobbs and Pat Robertson." But neither candidate is running on policy. Thompson and Huckabee are running on personality, and the grumpy TV star is unable to compete on that field with the avuncular ex-preacher.

Comments

sage | November 20, 2007, 4:29pm | #

Just feet from the stage, along the ledge of the pier, a blowfish rotted in the sun.

Damn. And that was going to be his pick for VP...

Eric Dondero | November 20, 2007, 4:34pm | #

Thompson has picked up the strong endorsement of longtime libertarian hero Tom McClintock in California.

And Romney has picked up backing from William Weld, Cong. Tom Feeney of Florida, and hardcore libertarian Republican State Senator Bob Hedlund of Mass.

McCain's got Jeff Flake, and John Shadegg.

Ron Paul's got a few top libertarian endorsers: WY State Sen. Cale Case, MT State Senator Jerry O'Neil whose also a Libertarian Party member, and a couple NH State Reps.

Of course, Giuliani has the most libertarian supporters: Steve Forbes, Dennis Miller, Deroy Murdock, Ryan Sager, Cong. Ed Royce, CA Assmb. Mark Villines, MI State Rep. Jack Brandenburg, and a host of media personalities.

Kevin Houston | November 20, 2007, 4:35pm | #

I can see it now, a blowhard, and a blowfish. ;)

sage | November 20, 2007, 4:36pm | #

I bet Thompson's "rally" went something like this:

"Could I get a round of applause, please?"

*clap*clap*

"Thanks, Mom. Now could you run around the room while you're doing that and make it sound like a group?"

Joel | November 20, 2007, 4:48pm | #

"But neither candidate is running on policy".

Horrible statement. Every stump speech for Fred is focused on policy. When he talks about being a consistent conservative, he then talks about the issues that are important to him: federalism, immigration, national security (Iran, Iraq, etc.), social issues such as abortion. See http://infredheads.blogspot.com/2007/11/freds-iowa-mailer.html to see the mailer he is using in Iowa. Even the article you site talks about his message of a stronger, larger military.

The substance may not always be reported, but it is clearly there.

pdog | November 20, 2007, 4:49pm | #

Dennis Miller is a libertarian?

TLB | November 20, 2007, 4:52pm | #

OT Libertarian Alert! Defend the queen!

John-David | November 20, 2007, 4:53pm | #

Heh. The first link in Google when search for "huckabee" is to a paid link for his campaign. You can actually cost him money by going to his website.

VM | November 20, 2007, 4:57pm | #

pdog - yah. And DUNDEROOO, too.

Let's get Joel, DUNDEROOO, and Regina (other thread below), and take them out for cupcakes and hot chocolate.

Captain Chaos (now in thrall to URKOBOLD) | November 20, 2007, 5:12pm | #

PDog-Well, you see, Dennis Miller favors the war and the veterans who will soon come home and boff the shit out of your girlfriend/wife, who fantasizes about Iraq veterans when you're with her. And 9/11 changed everything. And Ron Paul will fail to drink the blood of every last man, woman and child in Iraq.

Therefore, Dennis Miller is a libertarian. QED.

Welcome to DONDEROOOOO land, and mind the dodo birds.

Warren | November 20, 2007, 5:22pm | #

http://www.ronpaulgraphs.com/rp_vs_huck_today.html

Huck is trying to have a big fund raising day. Let's show him that the biggest day he ever had, doesn't equal the change in our pockets.

Donate now at RonPaul2008.com

Sam | November 20, 2007, 5:24pm | #

Please, TLB, if anyone's going to respond to Jesse Larner at HuffPo, make sure to mention that he confuses Russell Kirk with someone named Roland Kirk. It's pretty funny.

Tom Walls | November 20, 2007, 5:26pm | #

There was a questionable, unsourced announcement yesterday that Ron Paul had lent his endorsement to Jim Gilmore's upcoming bid for Va. Senate. It said nothing about free markets and individual liberty and read like a hollow endorsement letter written by a non-ideological staffer, and was signed with Ron's presidential campaign address, not his Congressional one, like you would expect in an real endorsement letter.

It was probably a Gilmore supporter trying to capitalize on Ron's insurgent popularity.

R. Totale | November 20, 2007, 5:40pm | #

TLB, you might want to post that over at some Objectivist website. They will probably care a lot more than anyone here (ed and Ayn Randian, excepted).

squarooticus | November 20, 2007, 6:02pm | #

TLB, I read the first page and a half of that and rightly dismissed it as the rantings of someone trying to prove false. Anyone who says

[libertarians] insist that they have every legal and moral right to own as many guns as they please, pay no taxes, educate their children at home, and live free of any law except those governing, in the most direct manner, their own security and that of their neighbors

like it's a bad thing is obviously operating under a different system of logic than I am.

Chris S. | November 20, 2007, 6:16pm | #

Ok, Dondero, you win. I'm voting for Guiliani now because Mark Villines (who the f**k is that?) et al. are supporting him.

Brandybuck | November 20, 2007, 6:25pm | #

Thompson has picked up the strong endorsement of longtime libertarian hero Tom McClintock in California.

I'm personally a fan of Tom McClintock. I've even voted for the man. But he is not a libertarian! He is a social conservative that just happens to understand that government should stay out of economics.

Nash | November 20, 2007, 6:33pm | #

"Thompson has picked up the strong endorsement of longtime libertarian hero Tom McClintock in California."

I've voted for McClintock. Twice. Once for Gov in the recall election (sorry Arnie) and again when he ran for LT. Gov.

I still like the guy but I think the endorsement was a mistake. He should have waited. To endorse Paul now is a poor move politically, to endorse him after he wins New Hampshire would be genius.

I'll still support Tom in his future runs at office in the state but he's already heard of my disgreement with him. He chose the wrong candidate.

Cesar | November 20, 2007, 6:34pm | #

I sort of like Thompson the more I hear him speak, too bad being an honest and consistent federalist is causing him to sink in the pools.

David E. Gallaher | November 20, 2007, 7:38pm | #

David Weigel,
You caused me to look up "avuncular." Based on what it said, it seems Thompson would be more avuncular than Huckabee.
Not that I'm looking for avuncular candidates.
Hell, I don't vote. But you knew that.

Rice Bingham | November 20, 2007, 8:00pm | #

Oh Dundaroo, you silly, silly boy. Perhaps you'd convince more people if you, like dropped the names of like, a dozen or so old school faux libertarians. Yeah, that'd really impress folks. It's like Joey Lawrence used to say.. .

Eric Dondero | November 20, 2007, 8:43pm | #

Who is Mark Villines?

Remember the move last year in California by Democrat legislators to ban smoking on public beaches, parks, and even in privately owned vehicles?

Well, Villines, from Bakersfield, was the one Legislator who led the Republicans against the ban. They were successful.

Of course, the libertarian media just ignored the story, cause, well Villines is a Republican, after all.

Eric Dondero | November 20, 2007, 8:46pm | #

Brandybuck, if Tom McClintock is not a libertarian, than nobody is.

He is simply one of the greatest single libertarian state legislators in the Nation today. And to say that he is not a libertarian is downright insulting, and displays an enormous amount of ignorance on your part.

Even the most diehard of Radical Libertarian Party activists in California love McClintock.

Tell ya what.

Whose the most Radical Libertarian in the entire State?

Gene Berkman right?

Ask Gene, if he thinks McClintock is a libertarian.

And, McClintock is close friends with CA LP State Chair Aaron Starr. Ask Aaron what he thinks?

BTW, McClintock has been affiliated with the RLC since the early 1990s.

Eric Dondero | November 20, 2007, 9:22pm | #

Wow! You all won't believe this news just breaking...

Michelle Kubby, wife of Libertarian Presidential candidate Steve Kubby, has announced she's leaving the Kubby Campaign to work for Rudy Giuliani for President.

Source: Stephen Gordon of ThirdPartyWatch.com

Gene Berkman | November 20, 2007, 9:27pm | #

Sure, I like Tom McClintock, and he is a conservative with strong libertarian tendencies. I organized a Libertarians for McClintock website, but I don't have to agree with him on everything.

I especially don't agree with his support for Fred Thompson, who wants more spending on the military and war. There is a post about this on www.libertariansforpaul.com

Bingo | November 20, 2007, 9:34pm | #

Hey Dondero, quick question:

Take a look at the support numbers for Ron Paul among young people. Substantial among that age bracket, but skimpy when compared to the voting population as a whole. It's pretty easy to sacrifice their votes, its only a few percentage points after all.

Consider the fact that these people are young, they've grown up with "anarchist" concepts like the internet and thrive in such an environment. Its pretty reasonable to expect that other kids growing up in such an "anarchist" culture will also hold similar views to these young adults.

Now, what if we took those numbers and added 4 years onto them? How about another 4 years? What will these numbers look like in 20 years? Do you really think this voting bloc is a fad? What does this mean for the current political establishment and your career?

Fluffy | November 20, 2007, 9:41pm | #

First of all, when will Giuliani renounce the support of known genocidal maniac Eric Dondero?

Rudy must return all donations, solicited or not, from Mr. Dondero and must distance himself from Mr. Dondero's support. If he fails to do this, we can conclude that Rudy agrees with Mr. Dondero's desire to murder women and children in order to satisfy his lust for revenge.

Second of all, there's a real, real easy way to determine who the libertarian in the race is, and it's by asking yourself this: If Ron Paul and Rudy Giuliani competed for the Presidential nomination of the Libertarian Party, which of them would win?

crimethink | November 20, 2007, 10:16pm | #

Donderooooooo,

Word of advice: appeals to authority generally work better if the people you're trying to convince know who you're talking about. I mean, if I said that Zap Rowsdower just endorsed Ron Paul, I'd make as much of an impression on you as you make on me by dropping whats-his-name's name.

Anyway, I don't care if every libertarian from time immemorial lines up to endorse Rudy...that doesn't change what he is. You can't polish a turd.

crimethink | November 20, 2007, 10:17pm | #

Fluffy,

Genocide isn't a crime per se. Ethnic groups don't have a right to life, individuals do.

Cesar | November 20, 2007, 10:32pm | #

How to post like Dondero:

Libertarian [name drop name drop name drop] has endorsed Giuliani.

And Giuliani [tax cuts] and [9/11].

I have [age references] since before [more age references]. And [name drop].

And [scary things about Muslims] you [little girls, wussies, faggots].

You're all [liberals, pacifists, radical anarchists].

highnumber | November 20, 2007, 10:36pm | #

Dan T interview is up.

Eric Dondero | November 20, 2007, 11:08pm | #

Gene, we are mortal enemies. Have been for years. And I thought I would never have said this. But thank you for backing me up on Tom McClintock. You may be a son-of-a-bitch, but at least you're an honest SOB.

Eric Dondero | November 20, 2007, 11:10pm | #

So Fluffy, are you saying that the Libertarian Party represents the entire libertarian movement?

In fact, the LP is a very small segment of the libertarian movement, which includes: Cato, Reason, Republican Liberty Caucus, Club for Growth, Grover Norquist's ATR, WSJ Editorial Board, State free market think tanks, ect...

Fluffy | November 20, 2007, 11:20pm | #

No Eric, I'm saying it's absolutely idiotic to assert that Giuliani is the "true" libertarian in the race if there is another candidate who would garner greater support among, you know, actual libertarians.

But I know that doesn't matter to you, since you see a Giuliani Presidency as your best chance to get to go all Jeffrey Dahmer on some brown person, and compared to the blood of innocents that you imagine Rudy will give you, what can Paul possibly offer you?

Tell me, when Giuliani moves from city to city, whose job is it to move the coffin and the Transylvanian earth - yours, or Norman Podhoretz'?

Bingo | November 20, 2007, 11:45pm | #

Hey Dondero, can you answer my question or are you incapable of looking beyond a single election cycle?

Brandybuck | November 21, 2007, 1:55am | #

Brandybuck, if Tom McClintock is not a libertarian, than nobody is.

Yes, he is a very strong fiscal conservative. But there is more to libertarianism than free market Hayekian economics. Where does he stand on social issues?

Legalization of marijuana and cocaine?
Legalization of prostitution?
Legalization of gambling outside of Indian casinos?
Does he oppose warrantless search and seizures?
Does he oppose no knock raids?

Michael | November 21, 2007, 2:00am | #

"Rudy Giuliani, Pat Toomey, and the Wall Street Journal editorial board" are not the first three names I think of when I think "prominent libertarians."

Dustin | November 21, 2007, 2:43am | #

Tell me, when Giuliani moves from city to city, whose job is it to move the coffin and the Transylvanian earth - yours, or Norman Podhoretz'?

I'm sorry, Fluffy, but I found this so funny that I'm compelled to steal it. In the coming weeks and months I'll find manifold ways to mention it in conversation. And I'll be taking all the credit too.

bill | November 21, 2007, 6:34am | #

Signing statements are stupid anyway because they are totally worthless. It doesn't matter what some President writes on the bill before he signs it. Congress makes the laws and the law is the law (or should be) no matter what the Pres thinks.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 8:17am | #

Brandybuck, we in the RLC pinned down McClintock in the early 1990s about his position on marijuana, before we gave him a couple $1,000 contributions for his Congressional races.

He told us that he would favor legislation to allow for medicinal marijuana.

I believe there was an article or two written about this in REPUBLICAN LIBERTY, (RLC's monthly publication at the time). If need be I could go back to the archives to confirm this.

Cocaine? I don't think legalization of Cocaine should be the standard in judging someone's libertarianism. Radical libertarianism yes, but libertarian lite - NO.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 8:19am | #

Michael, that's because you're a Radical Libertarian and not a Mainstream Libertarian.

The first name I think of when I think of prominent libertarian is DENNIS MILLER!!

The second and third are John Stossell and Neal Boortz.

If you're an extremist Libertarian, sure, you're going to think of George Phillies, Kubby, Badnarik, Jacob Hornberger, et.al.

The libertarian movement is vast and wide. It's not limited to a small section in the upper right hand corner of the Libertarian Quadrant of the WSPQ.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 8:21am | #

Bingo, there's a major article on RCP right now about Giuliani's appeal to young people. The pollsters can't figure it out. Rudy's got an enormous amount of support on college campuses.

Check it out: www.realclearpolitics.com

x,y | November 21, 2007, 9:17am | #

Dondero,

You keep up with this "mainstream libertarian" bullsh*t, and it's going to become a pejorative (as it has already on this site), not a compliment.

Randolph Carter | November 21, 2007, 9:42am | #

Eric, as the great Inigo Montoya said, I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 9:48am | #

x,y are you saying that Mainstream libertarians or Moderate libertarians don't exist?

All libertarians have to be radical libertarians? Gotta support legalized heroin, immediate privatization of all public highways, and and end to any and all forms of taxation, or one cannot call themselves a "libertarian"?

sixstring | November 21, 2007, 10:00am | #

Rudy's got an enormous amount of support on college campuses.

Strange then that he can't muster much support from his two college aged children. What do they know that their peers don't?

ed | November 21, 2007, 10:10am | #

I'm voting for Guiliani now

It is my prediction that America will not elect a man whose name is so consistently misspelled by the electorate. We dullards need to keep it simple: Bush, Clinton, Bush...

creech | November 21, 2007, 10:16am | #

I seem to recall Eric Rittberg, before he morphed into Eric Dondero, being a pretty reasonable guy with a bigger tent version of libertarianism than the LP, but still not that much larger that a Guiliani could fit under it. I'd like to see the post-9/11 Dondero list where his tent stakes are placed now in terms of what foreign, domestic, economic and social policies place one inside or outside the libertarian tent. What are the litmus tests (e.g. no libertarian will support draft/national service.)

Fluffy | November 21, 2007, 10:29am | #

Dondero supports genocide, so I'm guessing pretty much nobody is outside his big tent of libertarianism.

Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot - all mainstream libertarians to Eric.

ChrisO | November 21, 2007, 10:46am | #

Please, TLB, if anyone's going to respond to Jesse Larner at HuffPo, make sure to mention that he confuses Russell Kirk with someone named Roland Kirk.

I can see how easy it would be to confuse a traditionalist 'deep thinker' with an avant-garde jazz musician.

Eric the .5b | November 21, 2007, 10:51am | #

Gene, we are mortal enemies. Have been for years. And I thought I would never have said this. But thank you for backing me up on Tom McClintock. You may be a son-of-a-bitch, but at least you're an honest SOB.

Mortal enemies? When's the last time you tried to kill the guy?

(Hint: like "libertarian", this seems to be a word you've lost your grip upon.)

Jamie Kelly | November 21, 2007, 11:24am | #

DENNIS MILLER!!

"If you let the mothers of this country vote on it, guns would be nothing but a sad memory."
"I don't believe in abortion."

Yeah, Dunderfuck, that's quite a libertarian you have there.

Jamie Kelly | November 21, 2007, 11:28am | #

"I'd have a lot more respect for death-penalty supporters if so many of them weren't cross-enrolled in the NRA."
- Dennis Miller

Chucklehead | November 21, 2007, 12:27pm | #

Tell me, when Giuliani moves from city to city, whose job is it to move the coffin and the Transylvanian earth - yours, or Norman Podhoretz'?

That was beautiful. Kudos Fluffy.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 12:39pm | #

Creech, simple. The lithmus test is 66/66.

If someone scores below 66/66 on the WSPQ he/she is not a libertarian. If they score above 66/66 he/she is a libertarian.

Now, I'm more than willing to work with and support those who are just on or below the line, like say a 55/55 scorer, or a 70/50 supporter.

Giuliani? He'd probably score a 90 on Economics, and maybe a 50 or 60 on Social issues: "Yes" on opposition to the Draft, a "Maybe" on Adult Porn, a "Maybe" on Gun Rights, "Yes" or "Maybe" on Sexual Freedom, and a "No" on Drug Legalization.

I'd say that's pretty good. Even if you scored him pessimistically he'd still get an 80 or so on Eco, and a 50 on Social.

grumpy realist | November 21, 2007, 1:08pm | #

Eric, Giuliani is nothing more than "a little man in search of a balcony."

If he's "libertarian", then so was Mussolini.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 1:12pm | #

If he's not at least libertarian-leaning, than the entire Country could be described as "Fascist."

You look at it from the perspective of a Radical or Anarchist Libertarian.

Sure, from you're perfect 99/99 or 100/100 vantage point Nobody measures up.

Just remember, the Center point for the libertarian movement is 75/75, IT IS NOT 100/100 as you'd like to make it out to be. Someone who is at 67/67 has just as much right to call themselves a "libertarian" as you do at 100/100.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 1:13pm | #

Grumpy Realist, tell us please, if someone asked you to name a "Moderate Libertarian" elected official or celebrity or media person who would you name?

Michael | November 21, 2007, 2:24pm | #

OK, Dondero: how about Ron Paul, Jeff Flake, and Virginia Postrel, instead?

x,y | November 21, 2007, 2:34pm | #

Dondero,

I already knew you were an a**hat, but now I know you don't read well.

I said:

You keep up with this "mainstream libertarian" bullsh*t, and it's going to become a pejorative (as it has already on this site), not a compliment.

And you responded with:

x,y are you saying that Mainstream libertarians or Moderate libertarians don't exist?....

You, sir, are a nincompoop of the highest order.

Isaac Bartram | November 21, 2007, 2:42pm | #

Eric Dondero says

McClintock...would favor legislation to allow for medicinal marijuana.

Sounds good to me, Rittberg.

The FDA says marijuana has no additive medical benefit of any kind, that the illegal trafficking in marijuana is so great that it makes much more sense to keep it illegal. I will keep it illegal.

-Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani
August 17, Merrimack, N.H.

Sounds bad to me, Rittberg. Real bad.

So geez, Eric, where do you think the guy who thinks cancer and other patients deserve a life of pain and suffering, who put Michael Milken in jail, who ordered a crackdown on prostitution, who only reduced taxes when the State Legislature in Albany told him to, stands on the Nolan Chart?

Of course, I could ask "are you really this fucking stupid?"

But then from the other day when you couldn't tell the difference between military training and the torture of detainees, I already have and answer.

Isaac Bartram | November 21, 2007, 2:56pm | #

Who is Mark Villines?

Eric, a google search of "Mark Villines" gets exactly zero results.

If your going to insist on name dropping get the spelling right.

You see that's the reason I don't namedrop my contacts from nearly forty years around libertarians. I don't really remember most of their names.

I only remember yours because every time I heard it it was preceded by "that asshole".

Isaac Bartram | November 21, 2007, 3:09pm | #

Is this the original Eric Rittberg I wonder?

Rattlesnake Jake | November 21, 2007, 4:09pm | #

"The FDA says marijuana has no additive medical benefit of any kind, that the illegal trafficking in marijuana is so great that it makes much more sense to keep it illegal. I will keep it illegal."

On that basis, alcohol and tobacco should be made illegal since they have no medical benefit.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 4:22pm | #

x,y,

Real clever there. Call me names so that you can avoid answering the question.

Again, do moderate libertarians and/or mainstream libertarians exist in your world?

And if so, can you give us a couple names of politicians or celebrities you would view as moderate libertarians.

And please don't give me any of this bullshit about Minarchist vs. Anarchist. Both the chists occupy only an extreme fringe corner of the Libertarian Quadrant. They are essentially one in the same.

I'm talking real live moderate libertarians.

Isaac Bartram | November 21, 2007, 4:34pm | #

Dondero,

How does anyone who makes a statement like this:

The FDA says marijuana has no additive medical benefit of any kind, that the illegal trafficking in marijuana is so great that it makes much more sense to keep it illegal. I will keep it illegal.

-Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani
August 17, Merrimack, N.H.

get anywhere near the libertarian quadrant of the Nolan Chart?

Answer that, motherfucker!

Isaac Bartram | November 21, 2007, 4:42pm | #

Oh, and again Dondero, Who is Mark Villines?

No results from that name on Google.

But well if some CA politico opposes a smoking ban where does that put us?

Barney Frank is in favor of gay rights. Does that make him a libertarian?

Almost every Democrat politicians say he/she is in favor of abortion rights. Does that make everyone of them a libertarian?

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 5:20pm | #

I ain't answering any of you all's silly-ass question, until you answer mine.

Is there such a thing as a Moderate libertarian? And if so, kindly name one or two of them?

Do all libertarians need to be radicals?

Can someone score 68/68 on the WSPQ and still be considered a "libertarian"? Or, is libertarian just limited to those who score 100/100?

Isaac Bartram | November 21, 2007, 6:34pm | #

Eric, I've already answered that a number of establishment Republican (and Democrat) pols fall into a place somewhere on a libertarian continuum.

My question is, what lies do you have to tell to get most of your alleged "libertarians" into the libertarian quadrant of th Nolan Chart.

Hey look, my standard is the Nolan Chart. You have a problem with that?

Isaac Bartram | November 21, 2007, 6:46pm | #

Eric, if this is the WSPQ test you're speaking of, the your boy Benito scores a big fat ZERO based on his publicly announced positions. Actually, so do more than half of your "libertarians".

Man alive, this isn't a one hundred percent issue. You are claiming that people who score ZERO percent belong in the libertarian quadrant.

Isaac Bartram | November 21, 2007, 6:53pm | #

So, again Eric, who the fuck is this Mark Villines, who get exactly ZERO results if you Goggle his name?

Dropping names is bad enough. Making up names to drop is....well.....what is it, I ask?

Isaac Bartram | November 21, 2007, 7:18pm | #

Google...Google...godammit! Sonofabitch Rittberg gets me so fucking upset I can't even spel rite. Fuck!

Stevo Darkly | November 21, 2007, 7:33pm | #

Eric Dondero boogles your mind.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 9:32pm | #

Okay Isaac, I asked you to name some names of some Moderate libertarians. You failed to do that.

As for Giuliani, he scores 60/60 on the ontheissues.org site, which uses a modified version of the WSPQ. ontheissues.org is notoriously unbiased, non-partisan and does not take sides with any of the Presidential candidates. They look into their past voting records in depth.

I suggest if you want to bitch at someone bitch at them, and leave me the fuck alone.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 9:33pm | #

It's Mike Villines. I'm not sure if I have the spelling exactly correct. He's a Republican State Assemblyman from Bakersfield, might be Fresno? He's not an obscure legislator, and practically everyone in California politics knows who he is.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 9:35pm | #

Isaac, why don't you just pick up the mother-fucking phone and call me direct?

If you feel so strongly, want to just let it rip, here's my cell - 832-896-9505.

You can even call me tomorrow on Thanksgiving Day. Or even today, which happens to be my 45th Birthday.

But don't be surprised if I return the fire.

C'mon with it, pussy boy non-Veteran.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 9:36pm | #

The test I prefer to score Giuliani and others on is located here:

www.politicalquiz.us

Giuliani scores quite high, almost a 90% libertarian.

Eric Dondero | November 21, 2007, 9:40pm | #

http://chelm.freeyellow.com/how.html

For Mike Villines

Jake Boone | November 21, 2007, 10:38pm | #

DONDEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

You support killing people for the crime of being related to a terrorist, or for even living near a terrorist. It is not possible to both a) hold that position, and b) be a libertarian.

You display a profound lack of understanding of libertarianism, so your lists of "libertarians" may as well be lists of Sesame Street muppets or flavors of Progresso soup, for all the relevance they have to a discussion of libertarian-leaning candidates.

As a veteran of the US Army, I hereby grant my veteran status to Isaac Bartram, as he is a true American, honest and courageous, and he embodies the spirit of the America I swore to defend.

By the way, on 9/11, I was in the Army, and stationed overseas. Where the hell were you, oh great hero? I don't recall you telling the story of how you rushed right down to reenlist.

Kindly fuck off.

Asharak | November 21, 2007, 11:08pm | #

It's amusing how Dondero seems to think anyone who brings up Giuliani's drug-warring or contempt for civil liberties is a "radical libertarian" or "anarchist", as if many people here would consider both to be insults.

It would be poetic justice if Giuliani gets the Republican nomination and wins, and a couple of years from now, Dondero gets busted with a bag of weed and has a toilet plunger handle shoved up his butt for resisting arrest (and that's if the cops haven't already shot him 19 times).
Or maybe a neighbor who doesn't like him will just call Homeland Security and say he's a terrorist.

Asharak | November 21, 2007, 11:10pm | #

Has anyone made an idiot/troll list? Here's what I got so far:

- Eric Dondero
- TLB
- Edward
- Guy Montag

Urkobold&trade: | November 21, 2007, 11:29pm | #

AHEM.

John Rhoads | November 22, 2007, 12:00am | #

For the most part, I think this is kind of a silly argument; it doesn't really matter if it is accurate to label Rudy a libertarian or not; I just know that the sum total of his positions make him a completely unacceptable candidate to me.

That being said, I don't think Rudy is clearly more libertarian than say, Obama, since no matter how you slice it, opposition to foreign interventionism is clearly a libertarian position. His lack of concern for civil liberties (the most significant libertarian issue in the current political climate) and his support of the drug war really make the case for Rudy as an even moderate libertarian pretty weak. I'm not too into litmus tests, but if you can't even support medical marijuana legalization, one of the few libertarian policies that an overwhelming majority of Americans support, than it's pretty difficult for me to buy you as even a "moderate" libertarian.

Eric Dondero | November 22, 2007, 8:47am | #

John Roads,

In actuality, opposition to the War on Islamo-Fascism is indeed a Pro-Fascist position.

And Fascism is the polar opposite of libertarianism.

How anyone can be in favor of forcing women to wear burqas, stoning prostitutes in town squares, having gay men have their genitals whacked off and stuffed in their mouths, assasinations of free speech advocates like Theo van Gogh, and widowed women being shot at soccer stadiums in front of thousands of cheering fans for the crime of walking outside of their homes alone, and still call oneself a "libertarian" is beyond me.

If you support surrender to Islamo-Fascism, you defacto support everything above. And you are not in any stretch of the imagination a "libertarian."

Eric Dondero | November 22, 2007, 8:49am | #

As for Rudy being the same as Obama, note at ontheissues.org Rudy scores 60/60.

Obama and Hillary score 30/60.

Edwards is at 50/30.

That's quite a gap there.

Eric Dondero | November 22, 2007, 8:56am | #

John Roads, you are clearly ignorant of libertarian movement history. Must be a Newbie, 'eh? Just kinda like joined our libertarian movement in grad school a couple years ago? A leftist friend of yours told ya about this "really cool site dude" called AntiWar.com.

One day as you were trolling at Raimondo's site you clicked onto the link for LewRockwell.com.

And Vallah! That's the extent of your knowledge of the libertarian movement.

Hey Newbie Asshole!!! Listen up you fuck. The libertarian movement WAS FOUNDED BY PRO-DEFENSE LIBERTARIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barry Goldwater is the official titular head of the Modern Libertarian Movement. And Barry was STRIDENTLY Pro-War.

But in practicality it was Dana Rohrabacher who founded the libertarian political movement. Dana was Chair of the libertarian wing of YAF in the late 1960s which the Libertarian Party was founded from.

And the LP's first Presidential candidate was none other than... Pro-George Bush, Pro-War on Islamo-Fascism, Dr. John Hospers of southern California.

Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, there was a thriving and quite active LIBERTARIAN DEFENSE CAUCUS within the LP, that carried the banner of Pro-Defense Libertarianism. And surprise, surprise... One of their most prominent members was none other than Reason Magazine's Bob Poole!!

In 2003, the Libertarian Party conducted a poll of their membership and found out that fully "40%" of LP members were in favor of the War in Iraq. We're not talking the War in Afghanistan. Nope. THEY WERE IN FAVOR OF THE WAR IN IRAQ!!!

So, don't you fucking preach to me you Newbie asshole about how "libertarianism is incompatible with being in favor of the War..."

It's your silly-ass position that doesn't belong in our libertarian movement.

So, kindly go back to that little leftwing America-hating college of yours at Berkely, or UC Davis, or Ann Arbor, or up in Massachusetts, and leave us real libertarians alone.

Eric Dondero | November 22, 2007, 9:01am | #

Has anyone made a Pussy-Boy Troll list of individuals on the Reason H&R Blog who are too afraid to use their real names, and hide behind ridiculous on-line nicknames? Here's my list of Pussy-Boy Trolls:

1. x,y

2. Asharak

3. ihh

4. Fluffy

I gotta hand it to Isaac, John Rhodes, and some of the others here. At least they use their real names.

Isaac Bartram | November 22, 2007, 11:16am | #

C'mon with it, pussy boy non-Veteran.

You have no idea what my or anyone else's history is. So you need to stop throwing the stupid-ass accusations around.

And as for calling you on the phone, why should I waste the cost of a call on a twerp like you. I've already told you what I think.

Eric Dondero | November 22, 2007, 2:56pm | #

So Isaac, you did serve in the Military? Which branch? For how long?

Jake Boone | November 22, 2007, 4:30pm | #

Where were you after 9/11, DONDEROOOOOOOOO!!!? Did you knock anyone over in your rush to reenlist? No? Then shut the fuck up with the "I was a storekeeper in the Navy" dickwaving.

Eric Dondero | November 23, 2007, 9:23am | #

After 9/11? I was serving on Congressman Ron Paul's District Staff as his Personal Assistant, District Representative, and Local Governmental Relations Coordinator.

You're right though. Looking back I should have resigned, and joined the Army Reserves or some other Branch.

Biggest mistake of my life staying on his staff.

Ward Ciac | November 23, 2007, 10:10am | #

Let me throw a monkey wrench in the works, E.D. Why is Barry Goldwater Jr supporting Ron Paul?

Eric Dondero | November 23, 2007, 2:30pm | #

I believe its Barry Goldwater II, not "Jr."

Anyway, this is a big coup for Paul. Probably his best endorsement yet. In fact, it is his best endorsement.

It's unclear as to whether or not Cong. Walter Jones has actually endorsed Paul. If yes, Jones would be the only Congressman to do so.

And Paul has a number of State Legislators supporting him in states like New Hampshire, Wyoming and Montana.

But his lack of endorsements from fellow Congressmen speaks volumes.

Also, to my knowledge, not a single prominent Texas elected official has endorsed Ron Paul.
Certainly no fellow Texas Congressmen. And no Texas State Legislators as far as I know.

Odd, cause here in Texas we have some awfully maverick uncaring about public opinion type Republican politicians. You would have thought that at least one of them would have stepped up to the plate for Paul.

But on Goldwater, and I'm going on record here, Ron Paul scored a major coup getting his endorsement. (And you can quote me on that.)

Eric Dondero | November 24, 2007, 9:11am | #

Just Breaking...

Giuliani has picked up the endorsement of Manchester NH Mayor Frank Guinta, known for being a huge property tax reduction advocate, and school choice backer.