Irish Rose Loves Blowing Stuff Up, Kidnapping Mothers of Ten

Having grown up in Massachusetts amongst a fair number of Irish-Catholics, it wasn't uncommon to hear a lunkhead wearing an oversized Larry Bird jersey, slurping on a Bud bottle, mumbling some nonsense about the nobility of the Irish Republican Army. In Boston, a criminal gang of thugs, knee-cappers, murderers, and half-baked Marxist theoreticians were venerated in the 1970s and 80s (and no, I'm not talking about the Bulger family). On Broadway in South Boston, one could find Belfast-style murals proclaiming that an "Ireland unfree will never be at peace." Of the threats of violence routinely delivered in the neighborhood, this was small beer. Of course Johnny Adair and the Shankhill types were just as bad, but there was, in this subliterate milieu of NORAID donors, never any question of that.

But that was a long time ago—before Omagh and 9/11—and not something I'd given much thought to in recent years. And then someone went and asked actress Rose McGowen, the star of a forthcoming IRA-themed film called Fifty Dead Men Walking, what she thought of Republican terror. The Telegraph reports:

McGowan stars in Fifty Dead Men Walking, a film based on the memoirs of Martin McGartland, an RUC Special Branch agent who infiltrated the IRA in the 1980s.

"I imagine, had I grown up in Belfast, I would 100 per cent have been in the IRA," said the actress, whose father is Irish.

"My heart just broke for the cause. Violence is not to be played out daily and provide an answer to problems, but I understand it."

In the same interview, she said she found the Union Jack flying in North Ireland "deeply offensive." A Unionist MP asked McGowen if the IRA she romanticized, the one she was 100 percent behind, included those brave freedom fighters (like Gerry Adams) involved in the abduction and of murder of Jean McConville, the mother of 10 and convert to Catholicism who was targeted for helping a dying British soldier, shot in front of her apartment in the Lower Falls Road. For those interested in an objective history of the IRA, I recommend Peter Taylor's brilliant book Provos or Killing Rage, by former Republican terrorist Eamon Collins. (Shortly after the release of Killing Rage, Collins was gunned down while walking his dog.)

Comments

Mad Max | September 16, 2008, 6:20pm | #

1) Actor/actress (usually an obscure one) says something stupid in a charming effort to show his/her superior compasion and sensitivity.

2) Neo-con morons publicize the statement of actor/actress in order to show *their* superior compassion and sensitivity.

3) Repeat as necessary.

Orange Line Special | September 16, 2008, 6:28pm | #

Damn that former star of Charmed! Damn her all to heck!

~~ Poll ~~
A. AlyssaMilano
B. Rose
C. HollyMarie
D. ShannonDoherty

My choice: AAAAAAAAACAAADCCAAAAAAAAAAAA

Matthew | September 16, 2008, 6:35pm | #

Hilarious Bulger reference there, Michael.

Poor Whitey--is that dear man still "missing"?

Ahh . . . South Boston in the 70's. Where folks would smash up your car if you parked it in the wrong neighborhood.

Matthew | September 16, 2008, 6:37pm | #

Mad Max,

Neo-con morons publicize the statement of actor/actress in order to show *their* superior compassion and sensitivity.

Perhaps they are just trying to make plain the stupidity of actor/actress.

Warren | September 16, 2008, 6:39pm | #

Because someone had to post it:

IRISH
Racial Characteristics:
Pie-faced, neckless, bandy-legged sots who almost never fuck. Ignorant and superstitious, they are in utter thrall to the vile, conniving priests of their dark and barbarous religion. Their women have their legs on upside down and no man in the country eats anything but potatoes, and only eats them when has out of strong drink. The principal delights of the Irish are in quarreling and fighting and killing each other with bombs. They can be trained to do nothing useful that a dray horse can't accomplish in half the time, and they spew out a continuous stream of mumbles and grunts which they fancy to be "poems." They sell their children for whiskey.

Good Points:
Many Irish are dead.

Proper Forms of Address:
Bogmouth, peat-face, Mr. Potato Head, nun-buns, dumb Mick.

An Anecdote Illustrating Something of the Irish Character:
There once was an Irishman who got so drunk while he was in Rome that he kissed his wife and beat the Pope's foot to a pulp with a coal shovel.

Stretchy | September 16, 2008, 6:59pm | #

I'm sure said Unionist MP was 100% behind the Unionist forces because they never ever committed a horrible act... ever... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)

Kwix | September 16, 2008, 6:59pm | #

Shit Warren,
I didn't know I could sell children for Whiskey. Damn, now I wish I had a couple.

spur | September 16, 2008, 7:00pm | #

Based on the tone of the post and considering the poster I can't imagine the books recommended are exactly fair on the matter. The UDF and the british government weren't exactly angels either -- the violence in Northern Ireland was fairly small beans over 30 years -- you'd find higher murder rates in a lot of america cities during the same time -- its amazing how many people made a fuss about it.

John-David | September 16, 2008, 7:14pm | #

I might not agree with her politics, but you have to admit see does have incredible fashion sense.

Paddy S Lament | September 16, 2008, 7:33pm | #

Pie-faced, neckless, bandy-legged sots who almost never fuck. Ignorant and superstitious, they are in utter thrall to the vile, conniving priests of their dark and barbarous religion. Their women have their legs on upside down and no man in the country eats anything but potatoes, and only eats them when has out of strong drink. The principal delights of the Irish are in quarreling and fighting and killing each other with bombs. They can be trained to do nothing useful that a dray horse can't accomplish in half the time, and they spew out a continuous stream of mumbles and grunts which they fancy to be "poems." They sell their children for whiskey.

And them's the good ones.

Sir Mix-a-lot | September 16, 2008, 7:38pm | #

"incredible fashion sense."

Baby got back!

some sense | September 16, 2008, 8:33pm | #

Why would anyone care what Rose McGowen thinks of anything? "Charmed" was just another rest home for incompetent actors, kind of like the original CSI.

Alan Vanneman | September 16, 2008, 8:38pm | #

"its amazing how many people made a fuss about it."

Actually, it's amazing how little a fuss people made about a terrorist organization that came very close to assassinating British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, particularly a terrorist organization that drew the vast majority of its funds and weapons from New York City during the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton administrations (and also during the two terms of Mayor Giuliani). The fact that the IRA didn't kill as many as died during America's drug wars is hardly a proof of "virtue." But, hey, I guess one man's terrorist is another man's ... How does it go? I forget.

John C. Randolph | September 16, 2008, 9:08pm | #

Hollywood Bimbo gets misty-eyed over terrorists, film at 11.

-jcr

vanya | September 16, 2008, 9:27pm | #

And here I'm guessing that Mikey Moynihan probably wasn't the most popular kid in school. Gotta problem with lunkheads wearing Bird jerseys there, Mikey?

Andy Craig | September 16, 2008, 9:33pm | #

Like so many conflicts around the world (Georgia-Russia comes to mind), there really were no "good guys" in Northern Ireland.

Dividing the island in the first place as a huge mistake. It's the same kind of borders-by-demographics-regardless-of-history that gave us the monstrosity of post-WWI Eastern Europe.

huh | September 16, 2008, 10:02pm | #

Alfred E. Neuman was based on 19th Century caricatures of the Irish.

Bill Cooke | September 16, 2008, 10:06pm | #

Fuck the IRA. Although the Unionists and the British government weren't exactly great civil libertarians, they were still better than those socialist racist terrorists.

Gusto | September 16, 2008, 10:14pm | #

"Like so many conflicts around the world (Georgia-Russia comes to mind), there really were no "good guys" in Northern Ireland."

All citizens are bad?

Andy Craig | September 16, 2008, 10:18pm | #

"All citizens are bad?"

I was referring to the actual combatants, as should have been self-evident.

Bill Cooke | September 16, 2008, 10:24pm | #

I've been to Northern Ireland. Your average middle class citizen isn't bad or interested in tribalism.

Average Citizen | September 16, 2008, 10:27pm | #

"I was referring to the actual combatants, as should have been self-evident."

Not to me it wasn't.

juris imprudent | September 16, 2008, 10:57pm | #

I'm really torn - does this make me want to fuck Rose more, or less.

Thomas Jackson | September 16, 2008, 11:08pm | #

People who support the IRA are no worse than those who suppor Bin Laden or Hamas. They have no idea what kind of scum these people are nor the complex history of Northern Ireland. You gotta love the faux Irish in Boston, people who know about Ireland because they seen Darby O'Gill.

Just ask one of them where their grandparents came from and then ask them to locate it on a map. I love the blank looks.

Did I mention that the Provo (the IRA of the 70s) were a bunch of Maoists. Lovely folk.

libertarian democrat | September 16, 2008, 11:35pm | #

I know where my family came from. I can point to it on a map. I've even been there.

But, I agree with alot of the sentiment.

Fusilier | September 16, 2008, 11:37pm | #

Hey Andy, as one of those 'actual combatants', fuck you.

And fuck your moral equivalence.

PapayaSF | September 16, 2008, 11:53pm | #

Rose's judgment about movies (she's a co-host on Turner Classic Movies) is fine, but her taste in politics is obviously as questionable as her taste in men (she used to date Marilyn Manson).

Andy Craig | September 17, 2008, 12:49am | #

"Hey Andy, as one of those 'actual combatants', fuck you.

And fuck your moral equivalence"

I said neither were the "good guys", not that they were morally equivalent. In other words, just because they're both bad doesn't necessarily mean they're equally bad.

So, if you're British (I'm guessing you are), take comfort that you weren't as bad as communist terrorists. Kinda like the American forces in Iraq can take comfort that they're better than the radical Muslims who behead people with pocket knives. Doesn't mean that the Americans shit rainbows and chivalry, and neither did the Brits in Northern Ireland.

Pieter F | September 17, 2008, 3:35am | #

Independence and self-determination are ideas any self-respecting libertarian should support. You don't have to support the IRA's frequently terrorist methods to support a free Ireland. You also don't have to support a socialist/Marxist Ireland (like the IRA) to support a free Ireland.

That's the whole problem with the Irish conflict. Instead of focusing on the simple goal of obtaining freedom by kicking the British out, everyone got all bogged down in arguments about socialism, Protestants vs. Catholics, etc.

bill | September 17, 2008, 5:36am | #

MS-13 makes the IRA look like a bunch of kindergarteners.

C Lo | September 17, 2008, 5:46am | #

You will not extinguish 800 years of war suffering and hurt with bland rhetoric. You cannot wallpaper history. We are taught what happened on our soil in our schools. We know who drew the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. We know who installed the Scots Orange planters, who imposed the Penal laws and who sent the Black and Tans.
Not the IRA that's for sure.
Terrorism can be carried out by a state too.
Americans assert the right to "well armed militias" in case the day should ever come when they are oppressed by a rogue government. Yet they cannot conceive it ever happening and do not recognise that it does.
Insurgent does not mean terrorist it means freedom fighter. Look it up!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_laws_(Ireland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans

huh | September 17, 2008, 7:03am | #

What I think is interesting is the impact that Ulster has had on American history that most people don't even recognize. Almost all white southerners can trace their roots back to Scots-Irish of the Ulster Plantation. The first Irish president wasn't Kennedy, it was Jackson. Jackson's parents were Scots-Irish Protestants from Antrim.

C Lo | September 17, 2008, 7:48am | #

Jackson wasn't Irish. He was Scots-Irish . His ancestors were Scottish planters who "settled" in Ireland before going to the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_of_Ulster
I feel like a history teacher here.
Interestingly McCain is Scots Irish whereas Obama has Irish ancestors (from Offaly). Sarah Palin was on a plane that refuelled in Ireland once.

Matt | September 17, 2008, 8:00am | #

said it once I'll say it again. If America is ever occupied, even if its for our own good, you know regime change or liberation, I'll blow up the occupiers and their families. Why? in the words of the lost-cause confederate soldier "Because you're here"

ed | September 17, 2008, 8:00am | #

H&R to Hollywood: We're running out of brainless actresses to quote.

Hollywood to H&R: Good one.

joe | September 17, 2008, 8:21am | #

So, you can neither support self-determination in Ireland, nor understand - Rose's horrible crime, understanding - why people would use violence to achieve it, or you are "objectively-pro-kidnapping and murdering mothers of 10."

Still a neo-con hack. All apologies and "these things happen in war" when it comes to his own cause, but any bad act by anyone involved in any other causes immediately discredits that cause, and makes it immoral to even understand why people would support it.

Mad Max | September 17, 2008, 8:43am | #

I have no brief for the Irish Protestants, but the Protestants of Ulster have had fammilies there longer than most Americans' families have been in the U.S. They're Irish. "We're here, we're Protestant, get used to it."

There are terrorists and terrorist sympathizers in both of the religious communities in Ireland, and each side has sometimes been unduly weak-kneed in dealing with its own terrorists, but the bottom line is that most Irish people aren't terrorists. As to the underlying political problems, there's no solution that will satisfy everyone. Not-blowing-each-other-up-while-accepting-some-second-best-political settlement is as good as folks can get by way of a resolution.

Mad Max | September 17, 2008, 8:52am | #

By the way, I assume Moynihan *is* aware of the tradition of "loyalist" terrorism in Ulster? And the occasional collaboration between them and some UK security personnel? Or does that interfere with the purity of his one-sided moral outrage?

Nick M | September 17, 2008, 8:52am | #

"I imagine, had I grown up in Belfast, I would 100 per cent have been in the IRA," said the actress, whose father is Irish.

"My heart just broke for the cause. Violence is not to be played out daily and provide an answer to problems, but I understand it."

Strictly speaking, this isn't really an endorsement; it's just sympathizing. Isn't it possible to sympathize with any non-psychotic person who does a bad thing, if you try?

Also, it's considered de rigueur for an actor to sympathize with her character's motives, to be able to play the part.

The Extispicator | September 17, 2008, 9:10am | #

Must ... resist ... agreeing ... with ... joe ... aaaaghhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I thought it pretty clear that the actress was saying the didn't condone the violence but understood the cause.

dhex | September 17, 2008, 9:41am | #

since no one's posted a tasteless joke yet:

what's red and white and flies through the air?

lord mountbatten's tennis shoe!

dhex | September 17, 2008, 9:56am | #

but more to the point yeah it seems pretty obvious what mcgowan is saying; were the ira less red this probably wouldn't have been posted.

DADIODADDY | September 17, 2008, 10:06am | #

Warren

FATHER??? btw B. Moynihan...nice rack, who cares about anything she might say or no say about anything? Any one have any pictures of her naked? any one want some?

Loupeznik | September 17, 2008, 11:58am | #

Sometimes you have to pick a side. purity in war is rare unless it is pure evil.

Seamus | September 17, 2008, 12:02pm | #

Independence and self-determination are ideas any self-respecting libertarian should support.

Just not independence and self-determination for the Orangemen, right?

Trying to say that the Irish had the right to secede from the UK but that Orangemen didn't have a similar right to secede from Ireland makes no sense. I'm not sure where the idea arose that the entire island has to be an indivisible political unit; maybe there's some theory that geographic entities have rights that trump the interests of the people living there.

(I suppose all this makes me a "self-hating Irishman.")

huh | September 17, 2008, 2:07pm | #

Well C-Lo, how many "true" Irish Catholics are descended from Anglo-Norman knights or Vikings? Fitzgerald and Costello are Norman names. I believe Sullivan is Scandinavian. The Scots themselves were originally Irish raiders. What's true Irish and what isn't? Do you have to be Catholic or speak Gaelic?

Matthew | September 17, 2008, 2:25pm | #

huh,

What's "true" Irish?

In a way, it's a nonsensical question--races aren't a specific quantifiable thing, they're a political invention, like "ethnicity".

But to answer your question, I would say it's someone with some bloodline connected to the country known as Ireland. Outside of that it's whatever someone says is "true Irish".

huh | September 17, 2008, 2:37pm | #

My contention was with C-Lo's comment that Andrew Jackson wasn't true becaus he couldn't trace his roots to the proper Irish people (ie Catholics). Just how different are the Scots and Irish ethnically, anyway?

Saxon Shill | September 17, 2008, 5:57pm | #

Celtic bastards!

Seamus | September 18, 2008, 10:42am | #

Sometimes you have to pick a side. purity in war is rare unless it is pure evil.

If you're actually living where the war is (Northern Ireland, South Ossetia, Kosovo, whatever), yes. But Americans don't have to pick sides in wars that don't involve them.