New at Reason
Jesse Walker deconstructs the most un-1968 song of 1968 and explores the camp traditionalism of The Kinks.
Comments to "New at Reason":
SIV | March 22, 2008, 8:49am | #
Davies—one of the few pop figures with a strong cult following among both gays and conservativesLike the bastard offspring of Judy Garland and
SSgt Barry Sadler.
Ska | March 22, 2008, 9:07am | #
Great album, love almost every song, except Phenomenal Cat. Just can't stand that one for some reason.It's the poppiest (word?) album I own, but there's something about it. Very surprised to see something about it at h&R.
Episiarch | March 22, 2008, 9:12am | #
Jesse, that was the most long-winded load of bullshit* I've seen in a while. Good job. I assume they pay you by the word.* just kidding, you know I like your stuff
SIV | March 22, 2008, 9:21am | #
the most 1968 song of 1968Pottsy | March 22, 2008, 9:40am | #
Ska, I'm with you on Phenomenal Cat... I love Village Green otherwise. Of course, there isn't a song on there that can top Waterloo Sunset.Jonathan Hohensee | March 22, 2008, 10:44am | #
I think it's funny that while the anti-war and hippie movement completely burned it's self out within the course of 5 years, for some reason Lawrence Welk, Stan Keaton, and Jim Nabors managed to stay somewhat relevant throughout the radical times and well beyond.I think the lesson here is never underestimate the buying power of cranky old people.
The Wine Commonsewer | March 22, 2008, 10:58am | #
The record recalls a more rooted existence.......artifacts worth saving draws on pop culture....Come Dancin', my sister always did.
Speaking of hippies, my boy, while shooting hoops, asked me just yesterday if I was alive when there were hippies.
The Wine Commonsewer | March 22, 2008, 11:02am | #
Oh, and don't forget Gallon of Gas.Jesse: Five bucks for your thoughts..........
:-)
Grumpy Old Moose | March 22, 2008, 11:08am | #
JONATHAN. GET OFF MY LAWN.Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 11:11am | #
The least 1969 song of 1969?http://ultimatum.imeem.com/music/fkvNtcMM/the_stooges_1969/
SIV | March 22, 2008, 11:47am | #
NM,I woulda thought 1969 to be the most 1969 song for 1969. Ig should have written a "1973" song for RAW POWER.
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 11:51am | #
SIV,I woulda thought 1969 to be the most 1969 song for 1969.
Conventional thinking like that is so un-rock-n-roll.
If it were true, then Iggy would have made it into the rock-n-roll hall of fame before Madonna & Mellencamp.
;)
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 11:57am | #
Speaking of RAW POWER"Fuck Authority" seems like the most 1984 or 1984 songs
http://www.rawpowerhc.com/
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=24920356
NM | March 22, 2008, 11:58am | #
er "of 1984..."Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 12:00pm | #
Or is this the most 1968 of 1984 albums?http://homepages.nyu.edu/~cch223/comps/welcometo1984.html
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 12:03pm | #
Nada by Olho Seco...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSoxNHUBfkk
I loved this song in '84.
J sub D | March 22, 2008, 12:09pm | #
TWC, Thanks for reminding me of a truly wistful and wonderful song.Ray Davies love of simmpler times -
In the hallway, in anticipation,
He didnt know the night would end up in frustration.
He'd end up blowing all his wages for the week
All for a cuddle and a peck on the cheek.
MC5 and the Stooges comments? Just more evidence that Detroit rock rules!
Munchies | March 22, 2008, 12:17pm | #
One of the best rock albums in history, sadly unappreciated by the larger mass of rock fans. It is without qualification one of the albums that you must hear before the Grim Reaper cometh for you.Ska | March 22, 2008, 12:18pm | #
I am a WS fan for sure. Saw them at Keyspan Park in Brooklyn - amazing show, couldn't believe how much sound 2 people could make.TV Eye always seemed like a Stooges song with that Orwellian feel to it.
Munchies | March 22, 2008, 12:34pm | #
White Stripes ... one of the few rock outfits that matter anymore.Munchies | March 22, 2008, 12:35pm | #
One listen to "Dead Leaves and The Dirty Ground" and you should be convinced.VM | March 22, 2008, 12:37pm | #
convinced that you're loony.kevrob | March 22, 2008, 12:54pm | #
The Kinks, like The Beatles, were heavily influenced by England's music hall tradition. Hey, the Brill Building was in Tin Pan Alley.Oh demon alcohol,Kevin
Sad memories I can't recall,
Who thought I would say,
Damn it all and blow it all,
Oh demon alcohol,
Memories I can't recall,
Who thought I would fall a slave to demon alcohol.
J sub D | March 22, 2008, 1:18pm | #
Does that mean you are a White Stripes fan?Yep. For such a craptastic city, the Detroit music scene takes a back seat to no city, styate or region. Dunno why that is, but it truly is.
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 1:21pm | #
JsubD,I do believe that Detroit needs to start their own R&R Hall of Fame given that neither The Stooges, nor the MC5, nor even Ted Nugent* are inductees in the one in Cleveland.
I don't actually think Ted is in the same league, but he had a great song or two and sold a lot more records.
J sub D | March 22, 2008, 1:23pm | #
What libertarian wouldn't like this Ray Davies snippet?♫Woke up this morning, what did i see
A big black cloud hanging over me
I switched on the radio and nearly dropped dead
The news was so bad that i fell out of bed
There was a gas strike, oil strike, lorry strike, bread strike
Got to be a superman to survive
Gas bills, rent bills, tax bills, phone bills
I'm such a wreck but i'm staying alive♫
I saw the White Stripes in concert few years ago worst concert i've ever been to.
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 1:25pm | #
The most libertarian song?http://www.rhapsody.com/tonyallen6/nepaneverexpectpoweralways
Pig Mannix | March 22, 2008, 1:33pm | #
What libertarian wouldn't like this Ray Davies snippet?Or this one?
The tax man's taken all my dough,And it's even got something for the chronic alcoholic:
And left me in my stately home,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
And I can't even sail my yacht,
He's taken everything Ive got,
All I've gots this sunny afternoon.
My girlfriend's run off with my car,
And gone back to her ma and pa,
Telling tales of drunkenness and cruelty.
Now I'm sitting here,
Sipping at my ice cold beer,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
J sub D | March 22, 2008, 1:33pm | #
Neu, When the decision to locate the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland (Fuckin' Cleveland? The mind reels)* was made, I knew it was a harbinger for bad things.Exhibit 1 - Madonna.
Exhibit 2 - Billy Joel
Exhibit 3 - The Bee Gees (yes folks, the Bee Gees are in the Hall, Iggy Pop isn't.)
None of these travesties would have happened if the Hall were in Detroit.
*If I sound bitter, it's only because I am.
For god's sakef fuckin' Cleveland. the mistake by the lake..
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 1:39pm | #
JsubD,Of course, even Link Wray isn't even an inductee.
He only introduced a couple of innovations in the Rock-n-Roll...like, um, the power chord and distortion and guitar feedback...
And one of the best rock songs ever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumble_%28song%29
Jonathan Hohensee | March 22, 2008, 1:39pm | #
I used to hate Billy Joel with a vengeance, and it was solely for the line "...and then there is Davy/who is still in the navy" from Piano Man. I dismissed the man's entire catalogue just because of that one lazily written, obvious rhyme.Iggy Pop should take pride that he's not in the Rock & Roll hall fame considering who is.
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 1:42pm | #
Travis,He should, but given that he just performed at Madonna's induction is one of the most profoundly disturbing things I have seen in a long time.
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/03/iggy_pop.html
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 1:43pm | #
(I continue)Given that performance, I am not sure he doesn't feel like he wants to be part of the crowd.
Ska | March 22, 2008, 1:43pm | #
Yeah, if the stooges get inducted to the rock n roll hall of fame, only 2 of them can show up, and they have to throw feces at each other and the attendees.And David Bowie.
VM | March 22, 2008, 1:44pm | #
J sub - being from detroit, you understand!Ska | March 22, 2008, 1:44pm | #
Fuck. I take it back. I guess Iggy Pop grew up a little bit.J sub D | March 22, 2008, 1:47pm | #
We have rare occurance on Hit & Run this weekend. Agreement. Ray Davies is a genius.** I expect this post will bring out the shameless, brainless Philistines.
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 1:50pm | #
Hell, they can't even figure out a band to put in that will fill out that alphabetical list.Who could fit in that empty slot...who?
Thinking hard.
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 1:50pm | #
The alphabetical list of inductees.http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/alphabetical-list/
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 1:54pm | #
JsubD,The Philistines were a pretty decent band from Albuquerque back in the day.
Jesse Walker | March 22, 2008, 1:56pm | #
Yeah, if the stooges get inducted to the rock n roll hall of fame, only 2 of them can show up, and they have to throw feces at each other and the attendees.And David Bowie.
They have to throw feces at David Bowie, or they have to throw David Bowie at the attendees?
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 1:59pm | #
Throw David Bowie's feces at the attendees?Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 1:59pm | #
David Bowie's Feces (aka -Let's Dance).Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 2:15pm | #
Or The Dicks?http://www.zuopress.com/14web.pdf
The Wine Commonsewer | March 22, 2008, 2:41pm | #
The least 1969 song of 1969?And now The Stooge sold out just like every rocker who said they'd never sell out.
Iggy, shilling for cruise lines.....
Course, the target audience is more likely to be replacing a hip joint than going to a hip joint.
Hughie Lewis | March 22, 2008, 2:45pm | #
For god's sake fuckin' Cleveland. the mistake by the lake......the heart of rock n roll is
Huey Lewis | March 22, 2008, 2:46pm | #
You spelled my name wrong, you imposter!The Wine Commonsewer | March 22, 2008, 2:50pm | #
Never was much for David Blowie or Iggy, a couple of the more obvious songs, but that's about all.Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 2:53pm | #
TWC,I defy you to find an instance of Iggy Pop saying he would never sell out.
It is, imho, very consistent with his version of the rock-star to do things entirely for the money.
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 2:53pm | #
And the fame.Iguana | March 22, 2008, 2:58pm | #
Iggy Pop should take pride that he's not in the Rock & Roll hall fame considering who is.Bet he's proud of this
Rock on Iggy, you counter culture underground rebel!
BakedPenguin | March 22, 2008, 3:03pm | #
TWC - I'm not an Iggy fan, but the fact that his song about heroin is playing over footage of happy families on a cruise amuses me.The Wine Commonsewer | March 22, 2008, 3:05pm | #
Iggy may not have been inducted to the RR Hall of Fame but he was there.....singing for Madonna.http://www.mollygood.com/its-all-for-you-madonna-20080311/
The Wine Commonsewer | March 22, 2008, 3:11pm | #
Baked, I kind of like Lust For Life, and I see the advertising strategy.I actually don't care if Iggy sold out --I'm looking at you NM-- just amusing to watch all of the counterculture heroes, cuz, in the end, they'll take the money.
John Lennon might have imagined no possessions, but he was taking the Bentley to the recording studio.
It's that old adage, Money Talks, Bullshit Walks.
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 3:23pm | #
TWC,I am with you.
I just think people lump all counter-culture heroes into the same bag.
I do wish bands that did a great record or 10 Xnumber of years ago would just be proud of that accomplishment and move on.
Nothing worse than the reunion tour/album...
Yuck.
Firefox User | March 22, 2008, 3:27pm | #
This has nothing to do with the article itself but I found it ironic that when I was reading it that Firefox prevented a pop up about Firefox from opening.stuck in 200 | March 22, 2008, 3:31pm | #
Nothing worse than theFixed your typo.
Mike Laursen | March 22, 2008, 3:52pm | #
Great album, love almost every song, except Phenomenal Cat.But you see, Phenomenal Cat is the test of whether you are a true Kinks fan.
For the record, the most un-1968 song of 1968 was I'll Be Your Baby Tonight by Bob Dylan.
Jesse Walker | March 22, 2008, 4:38pm | #
For the record, the most un-1968 song of 1968 was I'll Be Your Baby Tonight by Bob Dylan.It achieved this distinction by being released in 1967.
D.A. Ridgely | March 22, 2008, 5:43pm | #
It achieved this distinction by being released in 1967.Further proof of Dylan's uncanny ability to be ahead of his time.
Neu Mejican | March 22, 2008, 6:42pm | #
Further proof of Dylan's uncanny ability to be ahead of his time.What explains his ability to outlive his usefulness?
Nick | March 22, 2008, 9:33pm | #
The Kinks are one of my all time favorite bands (next to Family Fodder, Syd Barrett and late-era Talk Talk). Ray Davies is one of the most brilliant pop songwriters of all time (although I think they went on a major decline by the 70s as the drugs took over, just like the Beach Boys, the post-Beatles Beatles, etc.)From "Lazy Afternoon" (where the government takes all his money and even his yacht) to "Harry Rag" (in which the government takes all his money, but he's still content as long as he has enough to get a cigarette) to the aforementioned songs about unions, the Kinks had a very strong libertarian streak in a scene that tends to lean to the socialist Left. (Then again, the Beatles wrote "Taxman" and did a ton of drugs; thus we could probably make the case that they too were libertarians too.)
And honestly, "Phenomenal Cat" is better than some of the other songs in the middle of "Village Green." Twee, but still nice. "People Take Pictures of Each Other" ("...just to prove that they really existed") is my favorite on this album.
But "Something Else" is the Kinks' best. "Waterloo Sunset," "Two Sisters," "Lazy Old Sun," "End Of The Season" and "David Watts" are some of the best pop songs ever.
Wasn't "Lola," the first song that got non-libertarians, thinking about freedom of choice?
Mike Laursen | March 23, 2008, 2:07am | #
For the record, the most un-1968 song of 1968 was I'll Be Your Baby Tonight by Bob Dylan.Because it was country? Weren't quite a few rock acts dabbling in country music by 1968? Maybe I'm wrong -- that may have come a couple of years later.
Looking through a list of the top 100 hits of 1968, one that stands out is Johnny Nash's "Hold Me Tight". A hit song with a reggae beat in 1968.
Mike Laursen | March 23, 2008, 2:16am | #
Wasn't "Lola," the first song that got non-libertarians, thinking about freedom of choice?I don't know about that. Maybe the first hit song of the Sixties that had a gay theme. Although, did it really make any more of a pro-gay statement than, say, Uncle Milty appearing in drag. And did your average rock fan even listen to the words?
In the context of the album it appeared on, it was one episode in the story of a young man being seduced by becoming a rock 'n' roll star.
Pig Mannix | March 23, 2008, 2:47am | #
Because it was country? Weren't quite a few rock acts dabbling in country music by 1968? Maybe I'm wrong -- that may have come a couple of years later.Yep. The Byrds - Sweetheart of the Rodeo, 1968. And actually before that in 1967, one from an ex-Byrd, Gene Clark and the Gosdin Brothers.
Re the Rock 'n' Roll Mausoleum: leave it to Cleveland to pick a dead idiom that ran out of practitioners two decades ago and build a tax-funded exhibit in their honor. It's hilarious that no one thought of the obvious: what happens when we run out?
Interesting artie. Wonder how he feels about 2A since he got shot.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:16am | #
what happens when we run out?Nonsense. There are so many glaring omissions:
Joy Division/New Order
Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark
A Flock of Seagulls
Echo and the Bunnymen
Depeche Mode
Kansas
The Smiths/Morrissey
Nirvana
Kate Bush
Deftones
Smashing Pumpkins
Radiohead
Desmond Dekker
The Roots
Roxy Music
Tom Waits
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:24am | #
Say AnythingThe Pixies
Modest Mouse
The Flaming Lips
The Bad Brains
the Wu-Tang Clan
Devo
Eminem
N.W.A.
Heart
Public Enemy
KRS-One
Neil Diamond
etc.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:35am | #
Barry WhiteScott Walker
Vigan Derderian
Cheap Trick
Rob Zombie
Danny Elfman
Tina Turner
Dolores O'Riordan
Yes
...OK I guess I'm done
U2 never should've been inducted before Echo and the Bunnymen, FWIW
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:44am | #
Wait!Kraftwerk
Outkast
Pet Shop Boys
Lupe Fiasco
Zapp and Roger
Iron Maiden
Metallica
Steve Miller Band
Oh no, I think I could continue indefinitely
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:59am | #
and let's not forgetWarren Zevon
Nine Inch Nails
Jane's Addiction/Perry Farrell
Donna Summer
Diamond Head
Gary Numan/Tubeway Army
Def Leppard
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 23, 2008, 10:24am | #
Jonathon Hohensee:for some reason Lawrence Welk, Stan Keaton, and Jim Nabors managed to stay somewhat relevant throughout the radical times and well beyond.
I know that was an awfully early quote to be responding to this far down the thread, but Jim Nabors? Relevant? Come on, man!
Mike Laursen | March 23, 2008, 11:10am | #
I just can't believe he never made an album called "Jim Nabors' Neighborhood".Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 23, 2008, 11:33am | #
"Jim Nabors' Extremely Relevant Neighborhood.""Not Your Daddy's Gomer Anymore."
"Nabors EXTREME!"
This last one features several songs that will eventually make their way into Mountain Dew commercials.
some guy | March 23, 2008, 12:04pm | #
Art-P.O.G.,It's called the Rock 'N' Roll hall of fame. Not the "pop music" or "disco" or "country" hall of fame. Thus my statement that this waste of space has obsolescence built into it.
Who's next -- Spike Jones?
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 12:20pm | #
Not the "pop music" or "disco"Heh. Hence Madonna ;)
bryanD | March 23, 2008, 3:16pm | #
The most un-1968 song of 1968 was "Those Were the Days" by Mary Hopkin. Unlike the Kinks selection, TWTD was delivered with a straight face. And no drums*. And it wouldn't go away. It bent 1968 to its will. It might have even inspired the dreaded maxi skirt and granny dress. Not sure.*Maybe a high hat in the chorus.
"Rock 'n' Roll" covered about 15 years. As a pop-music idiom it had about the same historical range as Swing, and only slightly longer than Ragtime. Sure, people keep writing for it, and there are nostalgic revivals, but as a living, innovative art form, the coffin lid closed 30 years ago.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 3:41pm | #
I always think of "Rock n' Roll" as an umbrella term. New Wave, Prog, Alternative, Industrial, Grunge, Shoegaze, et al. all fit under the umbrella. And doggone it, if Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5 are in the hall, you have to put Wu-Tang, Outkast, et. al in as well.But then, rock n' roll becomes too nebulous a term. And if not 'classical', 'jazz', 'pop' or 'country', it's automatically rock n' roll.
Jonathan Hohensee | March 23, 2008, 3:42pm | #
"Jim Nabors' Extremely Relevant Neighborhood.""Not Your Daddy's Gomer Anymore."
"Nabors EXTREME!"
This last one features several songs that will eventually make their way into Mountain Dew commercials.
Don't forget his ground-breaking gangsta album "I'm Gonna Fuck Up Ya Bitch" album he produced back in 1992.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 3:50pm | #
I didn't even know who Stan Kenton was until I Googled him. But then again, I'm young.Jonathan Hohensee | March 23, 2008, 3:57pm | #
How come every genre of music apparently has died at the very least 10 years before I ever had got a chance to ever listen to it? Does the fact that the exposure of a musical style to an audience that is not a small group of borderline autistic snobs suddenly means that the genre is over?I remember when Emo was starting to become mainstream around 2000-2001, I read this one website claiming that the Emo trend was officially over in 1996 and none of the musicians recorded anything, so tough shit to all of us "normal" people who wanted to listen to the style.
Jonathan Hohensee | March 23, 2008, 3:59pm | #
so tough shit to all of us "normal" people who wanted to listen to true emo.Although really, I'd chalk that as being a win for us normal people.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 3:59pm | #
I'm not going to say it's because music critics are snobs...just kidding, it's because music critics are snobs.John Zorn | March 23, 2008, 4:21pm | #
Art-POG,I wrote a song about that for you.
"Perfume of A Critic's Burning Flesh" – you can find it on my album with Naked City: Grand Guignol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Guignol_%28album%29
Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 4:24pm | #
Perfume of a Critic's Burning Fleshhttp://mp3-realm.biz/listen/779773.m3u
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 4:27pm | #
No shit...is that the real John Zorn?The Real John Zorn | March 23, 2008, 4:27pm | #
As if.Jonathan Hohensee | March 23, 2008, 4:29pm | #
According to this, it seems as if performers actually pay to be in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame, like at the Walk in Hollywood;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sex_pistols.gif
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 4:42pm | #
You still left a blank in that alphabetical list.I know. I have the a weak memory. But who?
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 5:47pm | #
SupertrampForeigner
Manfred Mann
The Moody Blues
Moby
Beck
Van Morrison
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 5:56pm | #
How did John Mellencamp get in before Roxy Music, Joy Division/New Order, Kraftwerk, Barry White or Iron Maiden? [throws up in mouth]Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 6:37pm | #
Sigur RosBjork
Dropkick Murphys
Clap Your Hands Say Yeah
Trevor Horn
Dinosaur, Jr.
Black Flag
Bad Religion
Bloc Party
Boyz II Men
George Thorogood and the Destroyers
some guy | March 23, 2008, 7:37pm | #
I always think of "Rock n' Roll" as an umbrella termThat's why Tiger Woods will soon be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
He hits balls with a stick. Close enough, eh?
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 7:56pm | #
Sun RaKool Keith
Soft Machine
DMX
Scarface/Geto Boys
Cypress Hill
Fear Factory
Portishead
Massive Attack
Garbage
Tears for Fears
R. Kelly
Eurythmics/Annie Lennox
That's why Tiger Woods will soon be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.So you think 20+ Century Music Hall of Fame would be a better name? Because you're right, nobody's done 'rock and roll' since Elvis.
He hits balls with a stick. Close enough, eh?
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 8:02pm | #
Lists are pointlessTell that to Martin Luther.
Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 8:41pm | #
Art-POG,There is still one letter missing.
Think. Think.
(hint, from LA, one male, one female singer)
Mike Laursen | March 23, 2008, 8:48pm | #
Tell that to Martin Luther.Really now, wouldn't Martin Luther have done a whole lot better if he'd just boiled all his grievances down into a catchy protest slogan. Oh, and maybe invented the t-shirt.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 8:49pm | #
I give up.Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:13pm | #
Well, I did forget to mention My Bloody Valentine, Dire Straits, Phil Collins, the Jesus and Mary Chain and the Cocteau Twins but I don't think you're talking about any of them.Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 9:16pm | #
Art-POG,Every letter of the alphabet is represented at the R&R Hall of fame except for the one between
W and Y.
That letter also happens to be the name of an incredibly influential band from LA.
X
Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 9:20pm | #
Art-POG,Of course, given your list's apparently very low bar for entry, you could have included
XTC, X Ray Spex...
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:22pm | #
Of course.Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:25pm | #
But the real Rock Hall's bar is lower than mine. Mellencamp [blearghhhh]. You can't even deny that Roxy Music, Joy Division/New Order,Kraftwerk, Echo and the Bunnymen, Portishead and Massive Attack deserve to be in there.Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 9:42pm | #
Art-POG,I would be advocate for Joy Division & Kraftwerk...
I wouldn't be fine with Portishead and Massive Attack.
Echo & the Bunnymen, not so much...
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:42pm | #
The Cars, Ultravox, etc. etc. The Hall of Fame and Rolling Stone ignore New Wave. FOR SHAME!Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 9:43pm | #
That should read.I would be fine with Portishead and Massive Attack...
or
I wouldn't be upset about Portishead and Massive Attack.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:44pm | #
Neu Mejican...I'd compare Echo and the Bunnymen to U2, if U2 were good. Portishead and Massive Attack...well, I'll just say the song "Teardrop" alone should get Massive Attack in the Hall of Fame.
Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 9:45pm | #
Let me try that all again.In like Flynn
Joy Division
Kraftwerk
No contest
Portishead
Massive Attack
(as long as Tricky gets in on his own)
I would oppose
Echo & the Bunnymen
Roxy Music
Ultravox
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:47pm | #
OK, that makes more sense, NM.Now listen to Echo and the Bunnymen's "The Cutter" and the 2nd half of the "Ocean Rain" album. And listen to Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark's "Architecture & Morality" album. One of the ten finest albums I've ever heard.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 9:49pm | #
I don't know how the hell you oppose Roxy Music. Have you heard the "Country Life" album? Or "In Every Dream Home A Heartache"? Or even their first album. Bryan Ferry is pure genius, I'm sorry.Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 10:05pm | #
Art-POG,Roxy Music has some good songs, but hardly rank among the greats of their day (since you've offered albums for comparison...compare their best with Here Come the Warm Jets).
Echo and the Bunnymen are fine, but they didn't really define their style/their time. They are a good exemplar, but were not innovators.
And just to give you some perspective.
I heard all of those albums when they were new.
Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 10:17pm | #
A band that had huge influence that will never make it.Le Tout Puissant Orchestre Poly Rythmo De Cotonou
(50 albums, hundreds of singles from 1967 til just recently)
Easily as important as the more likely future inductee..
Fela Kuti
Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 10:21pm | #
Le Tout Puissant Orchestre Poly Rythmo De Cotonouhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=wzK7ttlR0LQ
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 10:26pm | #
Yeah, Eno's great and Fela Kuti will end up in the Hall. My biggest problem is due to my age I have a limited perspective on music. Of the bands that I grew up listening to there are only a few I could say were truly great. But I'm gonna have to listen to some post-Roxy Eno now.BTW, you're not really into post-punk/synth-pop? And I see that you're holding every artist to a high standard. Commendable.
But Madonna and Mellencamp are already in the hall [barfs].
Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 10:33pm | #
you're not really into post-punk/synth-pop?Actually, a big fan of the good stuff.
We just have different taste.
Check out early Cabaret Voltaire, Coil, or for a more pop example... Severed Heads.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 10:38pm | #
Love the Le Tout ... clip. Love the "Severed Heads" too.Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 10:39pm | #
Severed Heads website has some videos...Start with the early stuff...
http://www.sevcom.com
Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 10:40pm | #
The Kings of Benin is the name of a recent compilation of Poly Rythmo...worth tracking down.Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 10:46pm | #
http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Benin-Urban-Groove-1972-80/dp/B00078805MYou know you want it.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 10:46pm | #
I'm curious what you thought about Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark's "Dazzle Ships" album.Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 10:49pm | #
Er, and what do you think of Laurie Anderson and Kate Bush?Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 10:50pm | #
OMD always bored me, to be honest.My roommate loved their stuff, but I just couldn't get into it.
There was so much good music to choose from in 83-84, I didn't feel like I was missing out by ignoring OMD.
Neu Mejican | March 23, 2008, 10:53pm | #
Kate Bush has 3 great albums (The Dreaming is the best, Hounds of Love, and the newest one).Laurie Anderson was important, but dated poorly.
Some of her stuff holds up though.
Oh Superman was truly strange at the time.
She has an excellent sense of humor.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 10:55pm | #
There was so much good music to choose from in 83-84I was born in (late) 1983 and am convinced that is where my soft spot for synths comes from. Oddly enough, what I explicitly remember (no doubt from the radio) is Jennifer Warnes and Billy Ocean.
Art-P.O.G. | March 23, 2008, 10:57pm | #
Heh. Enjoy your "Futurama". Seems like I watch all my shows on DVD/internet since all I got is AFN.Nick | March 24, 2008, 1:15am | #
OMD's "Dazzle Ships" is totally worth checking out. In my opinion, it's in the top 5 albums of the 80s, one of the most underrated of all time and matches bands like Kraftwerk at their best quality. For a great music video, check out "Telegraph."Several who DEFINITELY need to be in the RnRHOF: Captain Beefheart, Joe Meek, Kraftwerk, Brian Eno, Can, The Zombies, King Crimson, Devo, Joy Division/New Order, Afrika Bambaataa, Link Wray, The Shangri-La's, The Monkees (sure, they were prefabbed, but they're damn important), The Stooges, Giorgio Moroder, The Modern Lovers, The Residents, Robert Wyatt/Soft Machine, Wire, The Sugar Hill Gang, Roxy Music, etc.
They should withdraw the Eagles, John Mellencamp, the Bee Gees and McCartney's solo career and start down a list of real innovators.
Nick | March 24, 2008, 1:20am | #
Art-P.O.G., Many of your acts aren't qualified because they weren't formed > 25 years ago.Add Sun Ra, Scott Walker and Tom Waits to my list, however.
Art-P.O.G. | March 24, 2008, 9:05am | #
Art-P.O.G., Many of your acts aren't qualified because they weren't formed > 25 years agoRight. I didn't know that. Well, my original idea before I got carried away was to try to demonstrate that, despite "some guy"'s claim, the Hall could probably keep inducting people indefinitely.
highnumber | March 24, 2008, 10:44am | #
But "Something Else" is the Kinks' best. "Waterloo Sunset," "Two Sisters," "Lazy Old Sun," "End Of The Season" and "David Watts" are some of the best pop songs ever.QFT, as the kids like to say. "Waterloo Sunset" is widely and rightly recognized as one of the greatest pop songs ever written. I got chills when we visited Waterloo Station.
Great article, Jesse. I will put the book on my list. (The good list, not The List.)
Neu Mejican | March 24, 2008, 11:18am | #
FWIW,Sun Ra kicks ass.
But if he is inducted that would indicate that Jazz falls under the umbrella of Rock-n-Roll. Not sure I see that as valid.
Was Sun Ra more rock than: Herbie Handcock? Jaco? Al Dimeola? Chick Corea? Charles Mingus?
(A better case can be made for including Miles Davis, given Bitches Brew etc...both for his influence on rock musicians, the rock band instrumentation, and the active blurring of the jazz-rock distinctions)
highnumber | March 24, 2008, 11:38am | #
John McLaughlin could be correctly admitted both with Miles Davis' band and with his Mahavishnu Orchestra.Love Sun Ra, but don't see a real RnR connection.
Anyway, the HoF is a joke for, among many other reasons, its American bias. Yes, yes, it is in the USA, but clearly RnR is an international phenomenon and American rock has fed upon what was created in other countries, most pointedly the UK.
IOW, the HoF is unworthy of discussion until the Jam is slated to be inducted and Paul Weller tells them to piss off.
Neu Mejican | March 24, 2008, 11:59am | #
International Rock scenes that need to be consideredTurkey,
Japan,
Cambodia,
India,
The entire continents of Africa & Europe
There are excellent examples from almost every country in the world, actually, but those listed above had/have vibrant rock scenes.
lunchstealer | March 25, 2008, 3:21pm | #
Sun Ra is cool, but yeah, he's Jazz, not RnR. I mean, Herbie Hancock and Miles Davis also both did crossoverish albums, but Head Hunters and Bitches Brew are still Jazz, not rock. Sun Ra's gotta be the same way.