Who could be against REAL ID Act, which would create a de facto national ID card? Domestic abuse survivors, for starters. Kerry Howley reveals the reasons why honest people might run from such a plan.
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Comments to "New at Reason":
John C. Randolph | February 1, 2008, 7:12am | #
Who needs anonymity to avoid stalkers? Just pass an anti-stalking law! That will help! After all, government is all-powerful, and can always protect us just like it did on 9/11, right?0h, wait...
-jcr
M | February 1, 2008, 7:12am | #
Nicely done, Kerry. I wonder what the rebuttal would be? Our security is foolproof? Breaches = isolated incidents = The Price We Pay For Freedom? We have laws against stalking, so that takes care of that?M | February 1, 2008, 7:15am | #
jcr is stalking my thoughts.Other Matt | February 1, 2008, 8:04am | #
Appealing as it is to view REAL ID author Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-wis.) as an agent of Satan, it is probably the victims of domestic abuse who provide the best case study in the plan’s overreach.Fuck that, I'm going to become Amish, they seem to be the only ones who understand what's really going on here.
Other Matt | February 1, 2008, 8:05am | #
Forgot to add:Just pass an anti-stalking law! That will help! After all, government is all-powerful, and can always protect us just like it did on 9/11, right?
And be like DC and make guns illegal. Obviously that works too.
the innominate one | February 1, 2008, 8:22am | #
Kerry just wants to be able to avoid her more ardent admirers from Hit and Run.Roger | February 1, 2008, 8:25am | #
Kerry, you misspelled "motor" in the first paragraph of your piece. Sometimes the best of us fall victim to the temptation of phonetics.gaijin | February 1, 2008, 8:34am | #
Kerry, you misspelled "motor" in the first paragraph of your piece. Sometimes the best of us fall victim to the temptation of phonetics.Thanks for pointing that out Roger...now I understand the article better.
Roger | February 1, 2008, 8:48am | #
You crevah man gaijin, too crevah!I guess Will has started knocking Kerry around again. He said he was better, but then he drinks and gets mad :-(
llane | February 1, 2008, 9:23am | #
Friends & Neighbors:This 'battle' is stillborn. These comments, excerpted from recent articles, define our new relationship with our government. And just like the credit card companies that change terms without discussion, our chosen 'leaders' have determined we are the threat and we shall all be observed while the bad actors still enter the back door.
Donald Kerr, a top intelligence official with the US government, says that citizens need to change their definition of privacy to match the government's definition, the AP reports. Appointed Director of the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) in 2005, Kerr is now the principal deputy director of national intelligence. Kerr is one of many in the intelligence community who finds Americans' views on privacy to be antiquated and unreasonable.
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Kerr echoes the view that privacy is not synonymous with anonymity. Americans who want to see anonymity at the center of privacy policies need to give up this notion, he says. "Too often, privacy has been equated with anonymity; and it's an idea that is deeply rooted in American culture... but in our interconnected and wireless world, anonymity - or the appearance of anonymity - is quickly becoming a thing of the past,"
LibertyPlease | February 1, 2008, 9:32am | #
Why do I feel like I'm being ruled, and not represented?.....Kerry Howley | February 1, 2008, 9:53am | #
Actually, I had spelled it "DMV." Not sure how that got in there.Fixed, thank you!
A Moose | February 1, 2008, 9:53am | #
Why do I feel like I'm being ruled, and not represented?.....See my comment about becoming Amish. We'll be expecting you soon.
Guilherme Roschke | February 1, 2008, 10:03am | #
Kerry,Great piece. Lets remember what Chertoff said about who the opponents of REAL ID are:
"So there are three categories of people who will be very unhappy about secure driver’s licenses: terrorists, some people who want to get on airplanes and federal buildings and avoid terrorist watch lists; illegal immigrants who want to work in this country by pretending to be American citizens; and con men. And we’re going to disappoint all three categories of these people by announcing today’s final REAL ID rule for driver’s licenses."
LarryA | February 1, 2008, 10:33am | #
Need numbers please. How often does this occur?I work for a domestic violence/sexual assault agency in a rural county of about 40,000 people. According to the last five years' records we've helped from six to twenty people per year disappear from violent families and stalkers. We're also currently seeing several clients who came here to disappear.
I also teach the Texas concealed handgun license course. I have a rather unique special class scheduled for three women who are afraid of individuals who have been stalking them. They now feel comfortable getting their CHLs since our last Legislature eliminated the process whereby anyone could get certain information about a licensee, including whether they have a license and their zip code.
Such targetted violence is hardly rare.
penxv | February 1, 2008, 10:40am | #
So how does the Real ID Act get overturned... is there any talk of that?I know that calling people Nazis has been done so often that it has lost its effect but how is this any different from the identity documents of totalitarian regimes?
The police have been abusing the shit out of people lately. The Real ID will be a seriously invasive tool for the state... especially if they come with RFID chips (and they will).
gabe harris | February 1, 2008, 11:11am | #
Chertoff is a Real-ID-libertarian, you redneck libertarians are just too simplistic to understand that we live in a modern world now, sometimes things will change in dynamic ways. We know that you conspiracy theorist think the government is out to get you, but get over yourselves. Chertoff is just trying to protect us, get with the program!Will people who fail to get their papers under the Real ID Act become "blanks," like in the old Max Headroom show?
Gabe Harris | February 1, 2008, 11:19am | #
Sure Giuliani tried to get Kerik to be homeland security chief and those conspiracy theorist leftist said he was a criminal...but at least Giuliani got to help pick Chertoff(his former assistant). We know Giuliani is a Authoritarian-Libertarian so there is nothing to fear in Chertoff... do you troofers out there think Chertoff is just trying to get a real ID so he can eventually put a chip in you? you people are so nuts, you are probably anti-semitic. is that why you think Chertoff is Dr. Evil?..he is the son of a russian rabbi, do you really think he wants this to be nazi land?TrickyVic | February 1, 2008, 11:22am | #
"""Kerr is one of many in the intelligence community who finds Americans' views on privacy to be antiquated and unreasonable."""I'll bet his definiton of privacy with regards to his personal data is more like the antiquated and unreasonable version, than the version which he touts.
It will be interesting to see if there is some LEO exception. You never know, some journalist's reporting may motivate someone to go after a cop. That person could use a friend at the DMV in another state to get the cops information.
"""So how does the Real ID Act get overturned..."""
Either Congress would have to repeal it, or SCOTUS shoots it down. A conservative court might shoot it down. ID has been a states issue. Congress didn't authorize a national ID, just rules about state IDs. I don't think Congress has the right to impose its rules onto a state license. Congress could make the state issue moot by authorizing a national ID. But they didn't, so there is some hope for SCOTUS to overturn the new rules.
TrickyVic | February 1, 2008, 11:24am | #
Authoritarian-LibertarianIsn't that a contradiction of terms?
TrickyVic | February 1, 2008, 11:27am | #
Gabe, what do you fear so much?Do you trust the government?
Where is the line? How much information should the government know?
Did you ever read 1984? If so, which side were you on?
TrickyVic | February 1, 2008, 11:28am | #
"""Sure Giuliani tried to get Kerik to be homeland security chief and those conspiracy theorist leftist said he was a criminal...""""Maybe you don't remember when the right wing was opposed to such government oversight of it's citizens.
LibertyPlease | February 1, 2008, 12:31pm | #
So how does the Real ID Act get overturned...Even if REAL ID gets shot down (or delayed), it's part of a larger trend that is not exactly about keeping us safe.....
As Claire Wolfe has said, "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
I hope we exit this awkward stage soon....
Grace | February 1, 2008, 12:52pm | #
I recently found this site and am relieved that there are at least a handful of people still thinking rationally.The domestic violence aspect is, like Kerry points out, just one small part of this issue. However, even IF there were no such risk for victims, the REAL ID would still be an overreach of gov't into private individuals' rights.
It's handy to have a practical example of non-"evil-doers" who would oppose it, but that shouldn't be necessary.
Bottom line: those of us who've done nothing wrong shouldn't become criminalized by refusing to be tagged and tracked by our gov't.
Gabe Harris | February 1, 2008, 12:53pm | #
I was joking, just seeing if I could impersonate a neo-cosmo-libertarian.Gabe Harris | February 1, 2008, 1:08pm | #
I'm jsut annoyed because the cato reason folks like to throw around the slurs of "paranoid conspiracy nut" or "redneck militia advocates" to anyone who doesn't agree with their big government style of "libertarianism". The fact that people at CATO can write articles in the WSJ saying we should not hold anyone accountable for breaking eavesdropping laws..while calling themselves the real, practical libertarians and sticking up for each other as they slur those in favor of actual individual liebrty is sickening.you are being ruled and not represented! The Elites will make it so; get over it. Oh, and by the way, they can end the Amish as well so give it up.
TrickyVic | February 1, 2008, 2:00pm | #
"""I recently found this site and am relieved that there are at least a handful of people still thinking rationally."""We think REASONably. ;-)
Gabe | February 1, 2008, 2:32pm | #
TrickyVicya I do remember when it seemed normal for republicans to want individual liberty...the scary part is now even some groups who call themselves libertarian seem to think homeland security and the patriot act and this war are all peachy keen....and if you disagree your some sort of "loony redneck racist conspiracy theorists"...some Reason writers call Rudy libertarian! that's what I was making fun of and it is amazing that my lines actually seemed to be realitic enough that someone here would reply to them.
John | February 1, 2008, 2:35pm | #
The thing is can they tell me how this is going to protect me from terrorists. Just like the stupid no liquids rule. This is all window dressing. They want to look like they are doing something to protect us so they ban liquid expolives no person could actually use to bring down a plane anyway. Then they require a real ID. That just means it will be easier for them to notify the terrorists family after they die. Only a retarded terrorist would act like one before hijacking a plane.LarryA, Thank you for the information. I don't doubt there are many victims. I'm still unclear though that Real ID is a real threat and would be substantially more vulnerable than the current methods of information security. Serial abusers are probably pretty willing to do what it takes to find the abused. Will Real ID really lower the bar/increase the risk? How often have your current protective measures failed and was it due to the mechanisms that Real ID would make worse?
TrickyVic | February 1, 2008, 3:18pm | #
I don't think it's window dressing, the government has a real reason to want the Real ID Act. But I don't think it's the reason they are saying.They want the ability to authenticate you at every transaction. That way it helps prevent false data in the Total Information Awareness database.
TrickyVic | February 1, 2008, 3:21pm | #
"""I was making fun of and it is amazing that my lines actually seemed to be realitic enough that someone here would reply to them.""""Ah, ok. Sarcasm and the such does not translate well in text. I think we've all had that problem from time to time.
JCoke | February 1, 2008, 3:24pm | #
Tbone, I don't think that the idea is that without real id, serial abusers would never be able to find their victims. It is possible to escape, however, and LarryA was giving a firsthand account of this being necessary to the livelihood of many innocent people.. The REAL ID entails a national database, which essentially removes that ability to disappear. Also, I haven't looked it up, but I seem to remember feds just losing laptops full of sensitive and easily abused information about a large number of american citizens, and something similar happened in England as well.Persona non grata | February 1, 2008, 5:38pm | #
Why go through all the contortions?Just call REAL ID, what it is, a bad idea that should be shit-canned.
As for the Homeland Security Deparment its name has a certain authoritarian ring to it that reminds me of a now defunct agency(NKVD) in the good old USSR.
Just one problem, a law enforcement or dmv official in one state can track a person today. Interoperability excists in the National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System today. So your sob story about domestic violence victims doesn't hold water in argueing against Real ID. Additionally, commercial providers like Choicepoint have even more infor than drivers license databases.
Troubleshooter | February 1, 2008, 10:06pm | #
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/29/leaked-uk-govt-doc-r.htmlLeaked UK gov't doc reveals plan to "coerce" Brits into national ID register -- MIRROR THIS FILE!
Posted by Cory Doctorow, January 29, 2008 3:01 AM
Phil from the UK anti-ID-register group NO2ID sends in this nugget -- note the call to action there. We've got a sensitive government document revealing the British government's plan to trick us into a database state and we need as many copies as possible, as quickly as possible!
grumpy | February 1, 2008, 10:12pm | #
penxv notes that rfid will eventually be part of 'secure documents'.This am, some director of border enforcement, speaking of the new rules Americans must observe in order to travel, mentioned that d/l's and passport rfid tags would ultimately be read as you rolled up to the checkpoint. Not when you arrive, but from some distance. As skeptics point out, this is not exactly a secure system, but it will sure be a help for tracking folks and their companions as they drive down the freeway, enter and exit gov and commercial buildings, or just plain go about life.
Good luck
Troubleshooter | February 1, 2008, 11:43pm | #
http://www.difrwear.com/"Our RFID Blocking Wallets ensure that cards with RFID tags within the wallet can NOT be read while the wallet is closed. This gives you the ability to control when, how and by whom your cards are accessed. To allow the RFID tag in the card to be read, simply open the wallet and direct it towards the reader. Our products are lab certified by the United States GSA for protecting RFID cards used by the Military."
maryam fritsch | February 2, 2008, 3:31pm | #
As disabled user of social services in my state I am required to fill copious forms and when something new is added I wonder why. Why do they want my automobile registration now?According to Odd Citizen.com that's how your ID info will be used. Come May that will be in full operation.
One thing that still puzzles me is the status of Joseph I. Lieberman's SB1959 which seriously destroys the Conecticution regarding free speech. It was passed through the House lickety split and Lieberman had it in his "homeland protection" subcommittee. There has not been word one about its passage in the press only some very hurried announcement on prime time news without specifying the actual bill number nor its sponsor Lieberman. Lieberman must be gotten rid of legally. He SHOULD NOT be allowed in Congress and rightfully belongs in Israel with his army of warmongers!
Can anyone update me on this bill 1959?
One candidate has opposed Real id. He voted against it, he has written against it, his opposition is a major part of his platform: Ron Paul. Wake up America!
Serf | February 3, 2008, 8:49am | #
From the article:DHS regulations also demand that a “residence of principal address” be printed on the cardsIn Colorado, law enforcement officers can use their work address as the address on drivers licenses (according to some cops I occasionally hang out with).
The rest of us serfs are required to use our real residential address.
Serf | February 3, 2008, 8:55am | #
From the article:Proponents of REAL ID counter that we’re already living in an age of free information,So they're advocating a Transparent Society? (first chapter here).
Is there ANY way to stop the neocon juggernaut? Apparently not. What with the numbing mountain of oft-repeated lies issunig from the bushies, it seems that the collective mind of our citizenry is in a state of suspended animation.
I used to think that this country of ours will collapse as a free republic in 75-100 years. Now I believe it will be sooner than that. Say 50-60 years at best. So, farewell lovers of freedom and individual rights. Hello to the new, improved police state!
John Rohan | February 4, 2008, 10:37am | #
Reading through these comments was a bit of a shock - usually most of the people at Reason are somewhat "reasonable". But Holy Cow! Now I feel like I just stepped into a conspiracy theory convention.Here's a question for opponents of Real ID that no one here seems to want to ask: Why aren't you trying to get rid of state driver's licenses then? Let's have every municipality in a state make their own; according to you, that that would be a good idea, right? All the arguments against a standardized national ID could just as easily be applied to the standardized state IDs, and they haven't caused any disasters. To the Amish: What's the difference if I get the "mark of the beast" from the State of New York or from the United States? It's the same thing. To the concerned/paranoid: Do you really think states are better at safeguarding your personal information than the Federal Government? I submit that both are equally competent/incompetent in the matter.
Using the example of battered women trying to keep their IDs safe from their ex-husbands is an interesting argument, but as someone asked, how often does this actually happen? Not how often do women run away (as someone answered, not realizing that is irrelevant here), but how often do abusers get ahold of state data requiring women to move out of the state to hide their location? Not often, I would bet. And if this fear of abusive ex-husbands is the sole reason for keeping Real ID away, I would submit there are probably more efficient ways the law can protect women in such situations, instead of holding to an outdated ID format.
By far the biggest group this would actually impact would be illegal aliens, probably closely followed by identity thieves. Since Reason.com pretty much supports uncontrolled immigration, I'm willing to bet that is Kerry Howley's real reason for opposing Real ID.
Bottom line is, many free nations in the world have a national identity card. Many unfree ones do as well. I don't think it's the card that made the difference, but rather the people running the government.
Finally, I'll ask this. Has ANYONE here worked in a liquor store or a bar and had to check IDs on a regular basis? Do you know what a nightmare it is having to tell what is real or fake among 50 different state IDs with the threat of being shut down for serving alcohol to minors hanging over your head? You can get a very thick manual that tells you about every valid state ID and how to tell if they are genuine, but these things change every single year. Having at least a minimal standardized format could end up helping the economy.