Turkey at War in Iraq
Brian Doherty | October 24, 2007, 10:07am
Iraq war optimist Michael Yon thinks Americans are woefully, even willfully, ignorant about how great things really are over there. Now Turkey has decided war in Iraq was working out so wonderfully that it had to get in on the action too.
From Bloomberg (not the next president of these United States) News:
Turkey bombed units of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, in northern Iraq and ordered troops across the border in pursuit of the militants.....
Turkish F-16 jets and artillery pounded at least 63 suspected rebel positions inside the Kurdish-controlled region from Oct. 21 until yesterday.....
The army sent 300 commandos into Iraq by helicopter on Oct. 21 to hunt down PKK fighters after 12 soldiers were killed by the group the same day, the official said. The attack on PKK bases up to 40 kilometers (25 miles) into Iraq lasted about 28 hours before troops returned to the Turkish side, he added.
....... Turkey's parliament on Oct. 17 passed a resolution authorizing the government to send troops into Iraq to attack PKK positions there. The U.S. opposes such action on concern it would destabilize the calmest part of Iraq.
``These military operations will continue and perhaps the Turks will start economic sanctions against Iraq too,'' said Wolfango Piccoli, a political risk analyst at Eurasia Group in London......
About 80,000 Turkish troops are now lined up along the border with Iraq...
Read more about other rebel groups who make Kurdish Iraq their home, ones aimed at Iran and not Turkey, in Michael Totten's feature from our October issue.
Helena Kyle | October 24, 2007, 2:33pm | #
Dear Fluffy
Is that your name or your state of non existent mind...
Michael Yon has never lied, will never lie, nor has he ever endorsed a policy of lying. He hate the Military Press Office, and he has been VERY VOCAL about that. He hates the fact that they sugar coat this war, and rarely want to discuss failures and screw ups.
But you'd KNOW that if you really read his work and you'd KNOW the Military tried to censor him because he told the ugly truth about shit going on in Iraq - inspite of also writing the truth about the positive encouraging changes in Iraq and about the great work and acccomplishments of our troops.
So take your ignorant and false accusations and stuff them!
His work has garnered accolades and praises from Brian Williams, as much as from Sean Hannity and the few true journalists who put integrity above the lies that their corporations spew forth - read his work, use his work, and at times have even quoted his work.
But he knows, what millions of us know, that the MSM has painted a distorted negative image of the situation in Iraq - with info gotten from stringers with their own agendas.The MSM has NOT been honest about this war.
If you read John Burns work, he paints the same picture of Iraq as Mike - Burns lived in Iraq for 5 years and writes for the NY Times,
A LIBERAL left wing paper that he has admitted edited his stories with left wing less than flattering slant.
But if you to Listen to his interviews on Charlie Rose -- you get an honest straightforward clear picture of Iraq that matches Mike's picture word for word.
Good bad and ugly.
Mike has spent 2 yrs traveling throughout Iraq - not in the green zone. He doesn't use a stringer for his information, he sees it first hand.
-- if you actual read Mikes work, you'd know that MORE times than not, he has pointed out major errors by the Bush admin, and has gone on record as lending veracity to the the less than stellar realities put forth in Tom Ricks book - Fiasco.
So Fluffy - go stuffy - your utter total BS!
Helena Kyle | October 24, 2007, 3:52pm | #
Fluffy wrote "Yon thinks that the media should coordinate with the military to manage the way news is presented regarding Iraq in order to assist the war effort."
I can see from that statement that I did NOT misunderstand you, Fluffy.
Mike does NOT think that at all.He has never said that, never written that, nor implied that.
This is YOUR misguided interpretation,and one that speaks more about YOUR mindset, than about Mike and what he has clearly and concisely written over the course of two years, for everyone to read.
If you really read his entire body of work, and if you understood what you read of his work, the you would NEVER make that ridiculous bogus claim nor come to the erroneous conclusion about what Mike thinks.
Mike makes it clear in this dispatch and at other times, that the MSM for the most part, has presented a one sided view of this war. It has. Funny how you don't address that truth!
"If a writer admits to having any other consideration whatsoever besides finding and communicating the truth to the extent it is possible to do so, they are not a reliable witness. To anything."
I agree - but that defines the journalists of the MSM on both sides, left and right, but it doesn't describe Mike nor does it apply to his writings.
If you read the full body of his work including his scathing attack on the Military PAO for sugar coating this war,and you'd know that he blames the Military for the enmity that the MSM harbors towards the Military, which is ONE BIG reason why left wing media outlets slant their reporting negatively.
He is the only journalist out there today that has been committed to telling the whole truth good bad and ugly.And its cost him financially, and its turned the ego driven military PAO against him.
Mike thinks the media- both left and right - should present both sides of the truth, instead of presenting agenda driven news.
Like he does.
But you'd know that if you read his entire body of work.
Helena Kyle | October 24, 2007, 5:19pm | #
As for Brian:
At no point in that dispatch has Mike ever said that Americans were "woefully, even willfully, ignorant about how great things really are over there".
He did say they have been deliberately
misinformed by an agenda driven Media.
And they have. Whether that agenda leans right or left!
And because I feel the point bears repeating again - at no point has Mike ever said that he wants the Media to co ordinate with the Military to manage the way the news is presented, except in Fluffy's misguided and fanciful imagination.
Mike wrote "Anyone who has been in Iraq for longer than a few months, visited a handful of provinces, and spoken with a good number of Iraqis, likely would acknowledge that the reality here is complex and dynamic."
Mike has been in Iraq since Dec 2006 and prior to that spent 9 months in Iraq in 2005 - we can't say the same for the overwhelming majority of journalists who write about Iraq - on both the right or the left - with the exception of John Burns, Dexter Filkins, Tom Ricks, Richard Engel, and Nic Robertson
( altho I'm personally 50/50 on his reporting!)
Complex - as in "not black and white".
That, Brian, is a TACIT acknowledgment from Mike that the situation in Iraq is far more complicated and not as easily defined as the simpleton media explanations of "IRAQ IS IN CHAOS"---- or the bogus proclamation you falsely attribute to Mike of "Everything is going great in Iraq".
" dynamic" - as in "ever changing,not remaining still"-
as in --for a while it was going really bad but now a serious and real "sea change" is occurring
as in ---Just because it sucked 6 months ago (which Mike did write about) doesn't mean it sucks now.
Mike also wrote:
"But in the last six months it also has been increasingly hopeful, despite what the pessimistic dogma dome allows Americans and British to believe."
INCREASINGLY HOPEFUL mean inspiring hope; promising,
As in ---progress is happening and things in Iraq are moving in an inspiring and more promising direction on a daily basis.
As in - things are NOT AS BAD AS THE MSM and left wing bloggers and democrats want you to believe.
What those two paragraphs I quoted do NOT mean is that things are great in Iraq - that, Brian, is YOUR misguided interpretation of what Mike clearly and concisely wrote.
Talk about twisting words and being dishonest about what Mike wrote in order to satisfy your agenda - you are no different than the MSM!
What other stuff have you commented on where you've deliberately twisted what was written by someone else??
When things suck in Iraq - Mike writes about it - much to the dismay of Military Brass
(some, not all) and he Military PAO Higher Ups (some, not all).
More importantly - Because Mike also shares with his readers the ugly truths about Iraq, when he does writes about the situation in Iraq as being increasingly hopeful - we know he isn't lying because he hasn't whitewashed the truth with the typical right wing rhetoric of "EVERYTHING IS GREAT IN IRAQ" or the typical left wing "EVERYTHING IS PERPETUALLY,& IRREVERSIBLY HORRIBLE IN IRAQ"
Since he first went to Iraq in 2005, Mike has written the truth as he has witnessed and personally experienced it- sometimes it's good, sometimes it freaking sucks, sometimes its really bad, but he has NEVER
--N E V E R-- stayed away from the truth even when it cost him readership and donations from those who lean "right" and only wanted good news to counter the perpetual bad news from the MSM.
It's amazing how people claim they want truth when what they really want is to hear the truth that fits with their agenda and lends veracity to their misconceptions.
Mike Yon provides a great counterpoint to the MSM - he provides stories that you never read anywhere else; SOME of those stories are ugly, SOME are bad, and SOME are heartwarming and inspiring--but they are all honest!
They are the truth as witnessed and documented first hand and written with the expertise to put that truth in context. Since all meaning in the world accrues in duration Mike Yon-- like John Burns, Richard Engel, Michael Gordon,& Tom Ricks who have also spent long periods of time, in some cases years, in Iraq --understands the big picture and understands how each small success and failure fits into the whole.That is what has also been and continues to be lacking in MSM reporting.
Over the past few months some of the stories Mike has written have been about about the day to day achievements by our troops AND by Iraqi's themselves who are finally putting aside sectarian differences and working together, along side our troops, in building a better, safer, and more productive Iraq on a grassroots local level.
It is THIS truth that is not being reported by the irresponsible one sided "Iraq is in chaos" MSM.
Al Queda is getting their asses kicked so bad that Bin Laden had to resurface to give them a pep talk!
That fact alone lends credence and veracity to Mike's honest observation that as complicated and dynamic as the situation in Iraq is, over the "last six months it also has been increasingly hopeful".
As for Turkey, the incursion into Iraq comes after years of the Turks asking the US to stop Kurdish terrorism within Turkey's borders, by pressuring the Iraqi Kurds to stop harboring the PKK.
While their incursion into Kurdish Iraq is not the best possible scenario at this time, it doesn't detract from, or mitigate, all the positive changes that Mike has witnessed and written about.
Fires are gutting California right now, but that doesn't mean life in the rest of the US is in dire straits.
Your non existent sense of perspective when it comes to Iraq and to what Mike writes, speaks about how willfully ignorant YOU are, Brian.
It seems that it won't matter one bit if syndicated papers pick up the truth that Mike writes about Iraq, and delivers those truths to Americans who have been misled by an agenda driven media - because you, Brian, have just proven that some Americans only care about
" truth " that confirms their biases and/or supports their personal/political agenda.
Helena | October 25, 2007, 8:41am | #
"but when a person admits up front that they went to Iraq specifically to find the good news,"
Michael Yon has never said he went to Iraq to find good news. Please provide proof of your twisted accusations. Please provide a link and a direct quote from him.
He did write that he went to Iraq to find out the truth about what was going on because there was a disconnect between what the media wrote and what soldiers in Iraq told him was really going on. He went to find out the truth. And he did. It's not a truth you like. But that's your problem.
As I have asked: Please provide a link to the exact quote the exact quote where Michael Yon makes that claim.
"when they admit up front that they feel they have a huge stake in the neocon strategy being vindicated in Iraq,"
Michael Yon has never admitted to any such thing. Please provide undeniable proof of this bogus claim. I want a direct quote from anything he has written, or interview he has given to support your claim.
"when they describe the media as part of the battlespace"
The media IS part of the battlespace and they know this. That is why they choose to embed and why they chose to bias their reporting.
If the military didn't want the truth to be known about Iraq they would shut down the embed program.
One can always find negative stories in a war zone, Fluffy. But that is always only half the story. There is another side that needs to be equally represented in the media. It has not been.BIASED media is unacceptable in a democracy.
If the media feels they have NO obligation to keep the American public HONESTLY informed about this war, which includes fair and balanced reporting of the facts, ALL facts,all the truths as they directly witness them, or are able to ascertain during their time in Iraq - then they should never cover it. Otherwise they need to apply that same biased standard to every story they report. Either the media reports ALL news objectively or they don't.
The media has failed us. You should be angry at them. Not Mr Yon. He is not a journalist and he is not obligated to hold himself to the same standards. However, a close honest unbiased and unfiltered examination of his writings demonstrates that he has exceeded the standards.
Why does every major news organization have Baghdad bureau if they do not consider themselves to be a part of the battle space?
And since our enemies have used our media effectively to break the will of our people, as they have done, then by fiat, all media becomes part of the battle space. It doesn't mean that they must become a propaganda machine of good news only, but their role as Tokyo Rose is also unacceptable!
Your argument is that Mr Yon has only one agenda, to report good news, and so he cannot be trusted. It is an argument that is not merely flawed it is provably wrong by an examination of his writings. I will ask you again to provide proof of your accusations. Please provide proof of where HE states that this is his sole agenda.
"when they claim that the rest of the media has been biased against the prosecution of the war"
The medias responsibility is not to "dutifully whip the populace up for war" as you have insisted they did. It is to report news objectively. Your accusation that the media engaged in this behavior only makes the argument that they are irresponsible, and allow their biases at any given point to dictate their reporting.
That lends strength and veracity to what Mr Yon wrote in latest dispatch.
So, the media IS agenda biased as you point out [when it's been the complete opposite - the media dutifully helped whip the populace up for war, dutifully reported administration talking points for year after year, and came to have a negative outlook on the war much, much later than the population at large] yet you don't have any trouble with them being agenda biased as long as their agenda matches yours.
Your only grievance is with Mr Yon, who you claim is agenda driven, albeit your claim is false and can be proven false. But the point is you don't care that the media is agenda driven, only that Mr Yon is!
The media has been irresponsible and biased in their coverage by your own admission- yet you have no problem with a media that shirks its obligations and according to you whips up frenzy for a war.
Instead you twist the truth about Mr Yon's coverage because he provides good stories and positive progress which you personally find untenable, even though he has also never failed to write about the opposite, which you fail to point out!
Perhaps you see no purpose in this war. But do you really harbor only ill feelings towards Iraqis? Do you want them to fail? Do you not believe they want to work with American troops to restore security, to live in democracy, to work through their own tribal tendencies, and eventually to provide a clean path for our troops to come home? Do you not want proof that this is happening??
Or do you hate the military and this administration so much that you demand failure at all costs?
If you feel Iraq is such a mess, do you not want to know that in this mess, there are daily signs of positive change? Postive change that will benefit all of us.
Why does hearing about those positive changes anger you so much, Fluffy? Why are positive stories lies, and negative stories the ONLY truth?
I hate this war, Fluffy. I cry for the lives lost. It's a mess, I won't argue that it isn't. But in this mess that was created, I want nothing less than to know, that human spirit and ingenuity is working towards clearing up the mess, and in doing so, helping to birth a stable, democratic Iraq. That end goal is one that will benefit us, and not our enemies. Why does that anger you?
Our media by your own words has been biased in their reporting and have neglected their duty to Americans, which is always to provide news that is truthful and presented in context.
War, is never black and white, good news or bad news only... it is always complicated! I want news stories that reflect that complication, not deny it. That paints a truer picture of the situation in Iraq. That is what Michael Yon provides.
You cannot read Mr Yon's work, and then allege he lies, distorts,or only presents "good news".
Either you haven't read all his writings completely, or you filter what you read through your own angry pessimistic agenda, and then accuse him of having an opposite agenda.
Any reasonable person who has read Mr Yon writings knows you are cannot prove these allegations you make about him. Taken out of context, one can twist meaning from anything anyone writes.
And to bring this back to where it began:
Fluffy, you've claimed that Mr Yon is advocate controlling the media. Mr Yon has only indicated the opposite. I have read everything Michael Yon has written about Iraq and Afghanistan. He was nearly kicked out of Iraq twice, and was twice denied access to Iraq for what he wrote.
He authored "Censoring Iraq" which directly contradicts what you have allege.
It is your credibility, Fluffy, that is at stake and your agenda that is questionable, actually it's rather obvious.But your agenda clouds everything you write about Michael Yon.
Please provide all the proof I have asked for above,via direct links, and any direct quotes not taken out of context, from any of his writings,
Please provide a link to where Michael Yon advocates controlling the media.
I doubt you will find it. I have looked everywhere already. I doubt you will find any links to any of the allegations you claim.
