Could It Be that All Men Are a Bit Autistic?

The Times (London) is reporting a new study by Cambridge University researchers that implicates exposure to high levels of testosterone in the womb to psychological characteristics associated with autism. The study did not look at autistic children but noted that characteristics such as preferring to play alone and better pattern recognition correlate with in utero testosterone levels. The Times reports:

The theory that autism is caused by an extreme version of the “male brain” has won strong support from new research showing that male hormones in the womb are linked to social and emotional skills in childhood...

Professor Baron-Cohen cautioned that the results do not prove that the link between male hormones and autistic traits is causal – both could be the result of something else – and that his team has not yet examined autistic children, only autistic traits in the normal position.

Even so, he said the work adds strong biological evidence to his extreme male brain theory. “The extreme male brain hypothesis was developed at a psychological level, based on observed sex differences,” he said. “Simply put, girls tend to show better empathy and boys tend to have a stronger interest in systems. Children with autism seem to have an exaggerated version of typical male preferences. They have a strong interest in systems and have difficulty empathising.

“We are now moving from a psychological level down to a biological level, finding that elevated levels of testosterone may contribute to the number of autistic traits that you have. It is an exciting development.

“What we knew before was that foetal testosterone affected brain development, but we only knew that from animal research. This study has looked at that relationship in humans. We knew before that it correlated with social development at early points in childhood, but we had not looked at early autistic traits.”

Whole Times article here.

Some of my reporting debunking the alleged vaccine/autism connection here. So for Pete's sake, go get your kids vaccinated already.

Comments

Jim Bob | September 12, 2007, 10:30am | #

So what would an "extreme" version of the "female brain" be like?

Edward | September 12, 2007, 10:30am | #

I'm waiting for a study that links testosterone levels to political positions. Maybe higher testosterone levels produce a visceral revulsion at any attempt to redistribute wealth. If Ayn Rand were alive today, would she be a candidate for a sex change operation? Is the nanny state simply a function of low fetal testosterone?

Warty | September 12, 2007, 10:35am | #

Here's a test for Asberger's/autism. I scored 36. I am exxxxxxtreme.

Number 6 | September 12, 2007, 10:43am | #

While I don't doubt that Autism is real, is anyone else creeped out by the apparent medicalization of "prefers to play alone"? If I ever have a kid whose teacher tells me Johnny doesn't play well with others, I suspect my response will be, "Well, thank dog!"

Jim Bob | September 12, 2007, 10:45am | #

I scored 31 on that test, but I can guarantee I'm in no danger of winning any math contests.

J sub D | September 12, 2007, 10:46am | #

Research also seems to find a connection between lowered prenatal testosterone exposure and homosexuality in males. Fetal hormone exposure effects is interesting stuff. It is pretty obvious by now that personality traits are caused by nature AND nurture.

tom_sizemore | September 12, 2007, 10:48am | #

It seems to me that all they've proven is that testosterone masculinizes the fetus. Is that news?

This does pose a problem for the gender feminist doctrine that there are no mental gender differences. But that doctrine had plenty of problems already.

alistair | September 12, 2007, 10:55am | #

Yo, that's Sascha Baron-Cohen's brother.

and then... | September 12, 2007, 10:56am | #

from this month's Mothering magazine:

"Parents who attribute their children’s autism spectrum disorders to vaccine damage now have some preliminary research findings to bolster such claims. A recently released survey indicates a strong correlation between childhood vaccinations and rates of neurological disorders, such as Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) and autism. The California-Oregon Unvaccinated Survey, commissioned by Generation Rescue, a nonprofit advocacy group for children with neurological disorders, compared vaccinated and unvaccinated children in nine counties in Oregon and California. Among more than 9,000 boys age 4 to 17, the survey found that those vaccinated had a 155 percent greater chance of having a neurological disorder than their unvaccinated peers. Vaccinated boys were 224 percent more likely to have ADHD, and 61 percent more likely to have autism.

The results were even more pronounced for older (11 to 17) vaccinated boys, who were 158 percent more likely to have a neurological disorder, 317 percent more likely to have ADHD, and 112 percent more likely to have autism. Complete survey results are available at www.generationrescue.org/survey.html."

Just sayin.

Timothy | September 12, 2007, 11:12am | #

Definitely.

Definitely.

J sub D | September 12, 2007, 11:14am | #

Could It Be that All Men Are a Bit Autistic?

All REAL MEN are.

DavidM | September 12, 2007, 11:14am | #

Here's an old article (2001)

(http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html)

from Wired magazine that talks about the higher than average occurrences of Autism and Asperger's syndrome within the Silicon Valley communtiy; the basic premise is that couples with high systemization capacities are have a greater chance of producing children with hyper-systematizing brains.

helen | September 12, 2007, 11:19am | #

the Times (New York) covered this a month ago: [link].

helen | September 12, 2007, 11:20am | #

...and by "a month," clearly I meant "two years."

Lost_In_Translation | September 12, 2007, 11:21am | #

Number 6,

I don't see medicalization as necessarily a bad thing. Society will always decide whether they don't like it or not, but atleast they'll understand it more.

Episiarch | September 12, 2007, 11:23am | #

I took the test and scored 15, but I am a computer programmer and math contest winner.

The test is stupid.

Ron Bailey | September 12, 2007, 11:24am | #

helen: Thanks for the link. The new link is to reports about new data that bolster Baron-Cohen's earlier work.

carrick | September 12, 2007, 11:24am | #

Here's a test for Asberger's/autism. I scored 36. I am exxxxxxtreme.

35 extreme -- my wife will nod her head and say she already new that

Ron Bailey | September 12, 2007, 11:25am | #

Warty: Thanks very much for the link to the test.

Episiarch: I scored 15 too.

Number 6 | September 12, 2007, 11:27am | #

And then...
I'd be suspicious of any study funded by an advocacy group. I'm also suspicious of any study referring to a disorder with diagnostic criteria as fuzzy as those for ADHD. It's also possible that parents who vaccinate their children are more likely to present them for a diagnosis of ADHD.

And, of course, all it purports to do is establish a strong correlation.

Of course, that doesn't mean that we can dismiss the study out of hand; it does mean that it falls well short of being definitive.

Number 6 | September 12, 2007, 11:28am | #

LIT-Yes, then they'll classify it as a disability and feed little Johnny drugs to help him join the herd.

Lost_In_Translation | September 12, 2007, 11:31am | #

Number 6,

We must protect the hive, we must protect the queen!!!!

Humanity's destined to a collectivist future in any case.

Isaac Bartram | September 12, 2007, 11:31am | #

I think I got a 42 when I took that test.

I'm just glad that nobody had heard of Asperger's when I was a kid. I had enough problems. :)

Reinmoose | September 12, 2007, 11:31am | #

At first I was anxious about how long this test was going to take and considered quitting. Is that an indicator of anything.

I too am a 15

Bhh | September 12, 2007, 11:32am | #

34! Explains a lot.

I figure there's more autism because geeks are breeding. Because now they can make a lot of money. This has to be a relatively new phenomenon - just a generation or two. 100 years ago they would have been weird loner farmers or something. You gets the money, then you get the womens.

Timothy | September 12, 2007, 11:32am | #

One of the best things my folks ever did for me was steadfastly refuse to stuff me full of medication because I was bored in school. They realized that school was boring and chided the teachers and principal into finding ways to challenge me. More parents should do that before shoving speed down their kids' throat.

Isaac Bartram | September 12, 2007, 11:33am | #

Actually I guess it's more accurate to say I was well into middle age, and doing quite OK, before someone made up Asperger's.

Jennifer | September 12, 2007, 11:34am | #

So what would an "extreme" version of the "female brain" be like?

The children! Think of the children! Wrong? Nothing's wrong. What makes you think there's something wrong? Well, if you don't know what's wrong I'm certainly not going to tell you. Jackass. Can't even bother to notice my new haircut, can you? I had a QUARTER-INCH of hair cut off, but you can't be bothered to notice, can you? You're so self-centered. Be honest, now: do these jeans make me look fat? WHAT? You son of a bitch! How dare you call me fat?

Reinmoose | September 12, 2007, 11:36am | #

So what would an "extreme" version of the "female brain" be like?

Perpertual sobbing mixed with sharp and heartless anger.

Lost_In_Translation | September 12, 2007, 11:37am | #

Jennifer,

So we're going with sociopath?

J sub D | September 12, 2007, 11:37am | #

Thanks, Jennifer. LOL.

Lost_In_Translation | September 12, 2007, 11:43am | #

I take that back.

How about Dependant Personality Disorder.

Episiarch | September 12, 2007, 11:46am | #

Be honest, now: do these jeans make me look fat? WHAT?

So...perpetual PMS? Damn.

Bhh | September 12, 2007, 11:48am | #

Ok RM, I do believe I know someone with an extreme female brain.

I had some quack diagnose me with ADD when I was in middle school and my parents refused to medicate me too. I, uh, turned out ok I guess. Which leads me to one of my favorite Simpson quotes:

Get down from that bookshelf, please. Most of those books haven't been discredited yet!

Reinmoose | September 12, 2007, 11:54am | #

Bhh: I like that

Number 6 | September 12, 2007, 11:58am | #

Humanity's destined to a collectivist future in any case.

Yes, but I'm going to fight it anyway.

Warty | September 12, 2007, 12:00pm | #

I should belatedly note that I think online tests are generally worthless, and I strongly dislike labeling people who act differently as having (Asbergers | Autism | ADD | bipolar | ...)syndrome. That said, the test is fun, and maybe it explains why I can barely function in society.

100 years ago they would have been weird loner farmers or something.

The only reason I'm not is that I can't afford the land. I'll settle for being a weird loner grad student for now.

Number 6 | September 12, 2007, 12:04pm | #

Can someone explain why "fitting in" is an inherent (rather than utilitarian) good? What is it about having the herd approve of one that makes that person good?

jtuf | September 12, 2007, 12:05pm | #

Here's the paper from the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry. It didn't convince me. Besides, better teaching methods shrunk the math skills gap between boys and girls in a few years. Viewing social skills as just another skill to practice makes more sense than medicalizing it.

Jim Bob | September 12, 2007, 12:10pm | #

Jennifer,

Definitely LOL-worthy. :P

mediageek | September 12, 2007, 12:11pm | #

Jennifer wins the thread.

jtuf | September 12, 2007, 12:13pm | #

Can someone explain why "fitting in" is an inherent (rather than utilitarian) good? What is it about having the herd approve of one that makes that person good?

Number 6,

There's nothing inherently good or bad about "fitting in". Psychology and education majors tend to write the articles about skills and personality traits. These deparments are full of social people, so they tend to portray social skils as an inherent good.

mcewen | September 12, 2007, 12:18pm | #

So many theories, so many opinions, so many viewpoints, but hey! that's why it's called a spectrum.
Cheers dears

Miggs | September 12, 2007, 12:19pm | #

Edward | September 12, 2007, 10:30am | #

I'm waiting for a study that links testosterone levels to political positions. Maybe higher testosterone levels produce a visceral revulsion at any attempt to redistribute wealth. If Ayn Rand were alive today, would she be a candidate for a sex change operation? Is the nanny state simply a function of low fetal testosterone?

It's a good thing you decided to stop posting here, huh Edward?

SugarFree | September 12, 2007, 12:22pm | #

13

Below "Average Woman." OK.

RIGHT BRAIN'D!

just sayin | September 12, 2007, 12:27pm | #

Father of a diagnosed Asperger's kid who scored 37 on the test. Pretty sure vaccines weren't the issue there.

Once we found doctors who knew what Asberger's was there was no more talk of medication. Physical/occupational and social skills training has left him a much happier, more comfortable and functional person. He's always wanted to be able to play/interact successfully with the other kids and he likes being able to do better at it. If you want to call that "fitting in with the herd", more power to you.

Me, I just wish we'd had some of that when I was growing up. I figured out coping mechanisms of my own, but some help would have made it a lot easier and less painful.

Stevo Darkly | September 12, 2007, 12:28pm | #

So what would an "extreme" version of the "female brain" be like?

The children! Think of the children! Wrong? Nothing's wrong. What makes you think there's something wrong? Well, if you don't know what's wrong I'm certainly not going to tell you. Jackass. Can't even bother to notice my new haircut, can you? I had a QUARTER-INCH of hair cut off, but you can't be bothered to notice, can you? You're so self-centered. Be honest, now: do these jeans make me look fat? WHAT? You son of a bitch! How dare you call me fat?

That was great, but I have to confess that my laughter caught in my throat until I noticed it was written by Jennifer. Then everything was okay; this was written by a woman; I'm not sexist after all.

joe | September 12, 2007, 12:36pm | #

Warty,

When I talk on the phone, I'm not sure when it's my turn to speak.

Cell phones make you autistic!

Cesar | September 12, 2007, 12:36pm | #

I scored 10, and suck at math and science.

Cesar | September 12, 2007, 12:37pm | #

I'm also ADHD, which seems to be a bit like the opposite of Asperger's.

Reinmoose | September 12, 2007, 12:42pm | #

When I talk on the phone, I'm not sure when it's my turn to speak.

Cell phones make you autistic!

Joe: I too found that question interesting. But for me it was more confusing because I have some friends who, when talking to them on the phone, you think have stopped to let you talk, but they're really just taking a breath.

Taktix® | September 12, 2007, 12:48pm | #

I scored a 25, just above your average math contest winner (which I had always considered myself anyway).

Taktix® | September 12, 2007, 12:52pm | #

Yo, that's Sascha Baron-Cohen's brother.

So, like, my bro's this really important scientist n' shit, yo. He says he's like strait up smart, but he never getz da punani, so he ain't too smart to me...

Brandybuck | September 12, 2007, 1:56pm | #

Two minutes to Wapner.
Two minutes to Wapner.
Two minutes to Wapner.
Two minutes to Wapner.
Two minutes to Wapner.
One minute to Wapner.

Bob Smith | September 12, 2007, 2:06pm | #

This does pose a problem for the gender feminist doctrine that there are no mental gender differences. But that doctrine had plenty of problems already.

But by equating masculinity with autism it gives ammunition for the feminist doctrine that men are defective and how women relate to the world is normative.

Russ 2000 | September 12, 2007, 2:33pm | #

Interesting that it is described as empathy vs. systems.

Makes welfare, and government in general, sound like disorders because they are systematic not empathic.

dhex | September 12, 2007, 2:47pm | #

Can someone explain why "fitting in" is an inherent (rather than utilitarian) good? What is it about having the herd approve of one that makes that person good?

well, they're describing social skills, humans are social animals yadda yadda yadda etc etc and so forth.

i like spending time alone, but i also like spending time in groups so i think that makes me au-some.

Smappy | September 12, 2007, 3:12pm | #

Dr. "Baron-Cohen"? As in Sacha? Somehow I get the feeling that Borat is behind this research.

and then... | September 12, 2007, 3:24pm | #

then again, I scored an 8 on the test, and I'm up to date with all my mercury injections.