National Mood Ring at Orange Alert: Approval Ratings in the Crapper for Just about Everything!

Here's some good news for modern man: According to the Gallup Poll, which has been tracking this stuff since the 1970s, approval of Congress has never been lower. And the president ain't doing so well, either, posting Nixonian percentages. The poll was done via telephone with 1,007 adults in mid-June.

Some specifics:

• Folks saying they have a "great deal" or "quite a lot" of confidence in the Supreme Court: 34 percent; "the presidency": 25 percent; in Congress: 14 percent. All are down since 2002.
• Folks saying they have a great deal/a lot of confidence in the military: 69 percent (down from a high of 82 percent in June 2003).
• Folks saying that have a great deal/a lot of confidence in TV news: 23 percent. In newspapers: 22 percent....

 In fact, it's pretty much a clean sweep across the board, says Gallup:

Americans are currently in a very sour mood; a state of affairs that is reflected in the relatively low confidence ratings given many Americans institutions [including business, religion, the police, banks, and more] in Gallup's latest survey....

We assume that the low confidence ratings measured this year are connected to Americans' broader malaise with the state of the country. It is not entirely clear what is behind the currently bad mood on the part of Americans, but Gallup analyses show that the Iraq war and the economy are certainly perceived as major problems at this point in time. The very low ratings for Congress suggest that Americans may be upset that their elected representatives have not been able to rectify these concerns as well.

More here.

Comments

herodotus | June 22, 2007, 8:54am | #

"It is not entirely clear what is behind the currently bad mood on the part of a few tiny samples of the American public, but Gallup analyses show that the Iraq war and the economy are certainly perceived as major problems at this point in time."

There, fixed it.

Episiarch | June 22, 2007, 8:57am | #

If only this meant something. Of course, nothing will change--politicians only fear low approvals if they think they might lose their ability to feed at the trough. Since we've seen that both parties will gorge themselves incessantly no matter what, why should they give a shit what their ratings are?

Now, if there was a Gallup poll that showed 60% approval for "armed insurrection", that might get some attention.

creech | June 22, 2007, 8:59am | #

Odds are that approval of Congress would soar dramatically if they voted a huge new round of goodies for the American people. In fact, the rating of Congress, etc. is about where I'd expect it to be if Congress, etc. were controlled by Libertarians.(Assumes the voters were fooled into voting Libertarian.)

Jake Boone | June 22, 2007, 8:59am | #

It is not entirely clear what is behind the currently bad mood on the part of Americans[...]

Such a mystery! Why on Earth would the American public be unhappy when we have all these awesome things:

1) Extraordinary rendition
2) The TSA
3) Wrong house no-knock raids
4) Two ongoing, disastrous wars
5) Profligate government spending
6) Kelo v. New London
7) The Imperial Presidency
8) Declining value of the US dollar
9) Imprisonment of doctors who treat pain
10) Widespread Congressional corruption
11) Well-publicized government incompetence
12) Paris Hilton
...

I could go on, but I'm tired... y'all can probably continue the list. The point is, when the government gives us so much to hate, even people who don't follow news of government outrages like us are bound to run up against at least one of 'em.

(I'm sure the feds are behind Paris Hilton somehow... how else can you explain the suspiciously complete lack of evidence that the feds are behind Paris Hilton?)

de stijl | June 22, 2007, 9:02am | #

The return of malaise. At least the cardigan sweater industry should see an uptick.

Can stagflation be far behind?

SugarFree | June 22, 2007, 9:05am | #

But if we can just get a honest administration in the White House to clean all this up, everything will be fi... koff, koff... sorry, choked on my own sarcasm there. I've got to go lay down for awhile.

Warren | June 22, 2007, 9:14am | #

What happened to Americans confidence in Small Business?!?!

They didn't report the new data! There must be hiding something!

Matt J | June 22, 2007, 9:17am | #

Jesus we're a bunch of whiny fucks.

Not saying everything is hunky dory, (When has it ever been?), but if you listen to most people you'd think the landscape was dotted with Hoovervilles and child prostitutes.

Chris S. | June 22, 2007, 9:18am | #

Surprise, the police and the military top the charts! There's no way the U.S. could ever devolve into authoritarianism/fascism, right Rudy?

Warren | June 22, 2007, 9:18am | #

In fact, the rating of Congress, etc. is about where I'd expect it to be if Congress, etc. were controlled by Libertarians.

Perhaps, but it wouldn't matter since whatever they did or didn't do, it would have almost no impact on people's lives.

Taktix® | June 22, 2007, 9:21am | #

All the makings of a Ron Paul Revolution.

< Preacher-like voice >
Now is the time, brothers and sisters!
< /Preacher-like voice >

Sadly, the assholes in Congress will rally some support come Fall '08. Get ready for the bi-annual Gay Marriage bashing, WOD pushing, minimum-wage bullshit...

Brian24 | June 22, 2007, 9:22am | #

Nick, I don't know why this is good news; I agree with Creech and Chris S. People are upset with Congress because they aren't "doing enough." About the opposite of what most people here believe.

Aric Dumdero | June 22, 2007, 9:24am | #

There's no way the U.S. could ever devolve into authoritarianism/fascism, right Rudy?

What are you talking about? Some magazine and some think tank both declared Rudy to be the most libertarian human being EVAH! All true mainstream libertarians know this to be the gospel truth.

sage | June 22, 2007, 9:26am | #

I could go on, but I'm tired... y'all can probably continue the list.

13) American Idol
14) Baseball
15) Tight clothes on fat people
...

Abdul | June 22, 2007, 9:27am | #

Some of the numbers seem counter-intuitive. The Police have more than 50% confidence, but the criminal justice system is in the 20's. Are prosecutors and judges really dragging down police work that much? Or did people just rate the reunion of Sting, Andy sumers and Stewart Copeland?

SIV | June 22, 2007, 9:28am | #

1 High prices/inflation

ed | June 22, 2007, 9:29am | #

The rest of the world observes our alleged dicomfort and says, in unison: "Waaaahhhhh!"

Yeah, they should have our "problems."
We're becoming a nation of whiners, yet we've never had it so good.

SIV | June 22, 2007, 9:30am | #

Criminal Justice

the police didn't prosecute the Duke lacrosse players and let Paris Hilton go after a day
police aren't not deporting illegal alien felons and trying to give them permanent visas

jimmydageek | June 22, 2007, 9:31am | #

...
16) Basketball
17) Hockey
18) 2012 Olympic logo
19) Monkeys in the Presidency
20) Rosie O'Donnell
21) Bill O'RLY
22) Dr. Phil, that mother****er
23) Oprah
24) Reality TV
25) Lame sitcoms
26) Itchy ass syndrome
27) Bologna
28) Lack of Monty Python
...

SIV | June 22, 2007, 9:38am | #

Brian24,

A lot of what people are upset about is caused or exacerbated by Congress.
The comprehensive immigration bill has shown people all over the political spectrum how responsive congress is to their wishes

CJB | June 22, 2007, 9:39am | #

SIV:

Actually it was the sheriff that let her go, and a judge and prosecutor that got her put back so in a sense it was the police that let her go.

P Brooks | June 22, 2007, 9:39am | #

"The very low ratings for Congress suggest that Americans may be upset that their elected representatives have not been able to rectify these concerns as well."

If only Congress would make a law, our problems would all disappear.

I, for one, am awaiting (but not expecting) a day when Congress "rectifies" a problem by declining to involve themselves in it.

Justin | June 22, 2007, 9:40am | #

Its simple... liberals and democrats are full of piss and vinegar.

For at least 6 years they and their allies in the media have done their best to convince people that everything sucks and we're all gonna' die and we all deserve it too.

I'm sure the congress numbers are close (democrat angry we aren't out of iraq, republican angry about illegals), but I bet you any money the numbers on supporting the miltary was below 30% for dems.

Seperate those numbers into (R)'s and (D)'s and I'm sure you could do some constructive analysis.

FacialTick | June 22, 2007, 9:40am | #

Tree of Liberty, blood, yada, yada, yada.

rob | June 22, 2007, 9:52am | #

What I find funniest about this thread is Jake Boone's idea that the things that piss him off (and piss off most libertarians) are in any way connected with the general public's perception of things.

I think the one (very cynical) thing I've learned from holding the views that I do, is that just about no one else (other than the folks posting on this web-site) share those views...

Most folks roughly fall into the joe camp, and the rest fall roughly into his opposite number's camp. That leaves the tiny minority of those of us who have reached our point of view through thoughtful consideration standing on the outside looking in - at the UFC cage match that is the two-party system.

Bhh | June 22, 2007, 9:53am | #

It is a weird thing with the police/military. Slap a government uniform on someone and they have instant credibility. They same government everyone says they hate. I'm not sure how that works in peoples heads.

Both political parties do a whole lot of apolcalyptic ranting about how Osama is going to personally come and kill you. Then the republicans are going to take away your social security and you'll have to eat cat food. Then global warming will cause us all to get gay married. Doom sells I guess.

Reinmoose | June 22, 2007, 9:54am | #

Anyone else notice how HMOs rank right there with Congress? THAT is a sad state of affairs, my friends.

I agree with all those who say that people are upset that congress isn't doing "enough."

I think the high approval rating for the police is a leftover from 9/11 when we were taught to worship the police as "heroes" as we do our military, no matter what their conduct.

Jake Boone | June 22, 2007, 10:00am | #

rob -

I was probably not as clear as I could have been. I'm not saying that the public is up in arms over the same stuff I am; just that with such a vast laundry list of abuses and incompetence, even the joes and Johns of the world are going to find something in there to hate right along with us.

It's sort of like the way that Phantom Menace was packed so chock full of crap that even non-Star Wars fanboys could find something to loathe in it.

jimmydageek | June 22, 2007, 10:05am | #

As far as the police thing goes, most people go on with their merry lives, rarely hearing about the abuses of power that happen all too often.

When I tell my fiance about the some of the Balko posts on here, she just shakes her head in utter disbelief. Then she tells me to stop telling her these things because it frustrates her that there's nothing she can do about it.

I think many people are just unable to accept that the men and women who are supposed to "serve and protect" can just as easily destroy our lives. When you do hear something on the MSM about police brutality/corruption, it's usually only a 1 minute spot at the most.

It is a sad state of affairs.

joe | June 22, 2007, 10:08am | #

Banks? What do people have against banks?

Slimy mortage companies, maybe?

Edward | June 22, 2007, 10:10am | #

Can't be the economy. I'm doing great.

jimmydegeek

Your girlfriend just might be getting bored out of her skull with your non-stop anti-cop tirade. Better watch it.

joe | June 22, 2007, 10:13am | #

What I find funniest about this thread is seein the "the librul media won't report the good news" line being applied to the entire spectrum of American life, rather than just the Iraq War.

Although rob's ongoing mancrush on me is running a close second.

M | June 22, 2007, 10:15am | #

Ask my opinion of approval ratings.

JKP | June 22, 2007, 10:16am | #

Ironically, public schools rate higher than organized labor....

Isaac Bartram | June 22, 2007, 10:16am | #

I wonder if the 31/38 percent who are unhappy with "The medical system" aren't really just unhappy with the fact that they have to pay for it.

jimmydageek | June 22, 2007, 10:21am | #

Your girlfriend just might be getting bored out of her skull with your non-stop anti-cop tirade. Better watch it.

Possibly...lol...

joe | June 22, 2007, 10:21am | #

rob,

If I was actually the knee-jerk partisan you contend, and you were such an above-the-fray objective observer, I wouldn't have such a vastly surperior record of being right on issues of contention compared to you.

Unless you want to contend that reflexive Democratic partisanship is a reliable path to the truth, which I doubt.

VM | June 22, 2007, 10:26am | #

#8: huh?

i take it you're referring to nativists there?

Max | June 22, 2007, 10:29am | #

As far as the police thing goes, most people go on with their merry lives, rarely hearing about the abuses of power that happen all too often.

Most people don't drive cars?

Chucklehead | June 22, 2007, 10:31am | #

I had a mood ring when I was a kid. It stopped working after I wore it while swimming in the ocean. Damn shopkeeper wouldn't refund my quarter either.

Jake Boone | June 22, 2007, 10:37am | #

#8: huh?

i take it you're referring to nativists there?

No, I'm referring to the dollar's slide against the Euro. Unless you're talking to someone else and I'm misinterpreting the "#8" reference.

VM | June 22, 2007, 10:42am | #

but so what?

that's not a big deal. it's not a problem. indeed, it's a problem for european exports.

But it's not a red herring.

Edward | June 22, 2007, 10:43am | #

Isaac

That's 31/38 percent who are HAPPY with The medical system. They're the ones, like me, who can afford to pay for it.

JasonL | June 22, 2007, 10:44am | #

Whenever you see these things, I just find myself hoping that nobody takes them too seriously. They drift in the wind. Was there an OJ type event? Boo Justice System! Who cares if it was an anomaly? Left to their own, people have varying moods that smooth out over time.

Unfortunately, the election cycle is ramping up so we will act like this is the State of the National Mind.

JasonL | June 22, 2007, 10:45am | #

I wonder if people would be happy with a medical system in which half of all existing treatments were simply never thought of in the first place, but everyone had equal access to the same crappy medicine. I bet it would poll well.

And that is why we are screwed.

Edward | June 22, 2007, 10:49am | #

JasonL

Countriees with socialized medicine have a much bigger geriatric problem than we do. All those old geezers! Fuck, we are screwed.

Jake Boone | June 22, 2007, 10:50am | #

but so what?

Unless I'm much mistaken, European goods becoming more expensive relative to US buyers isn't just bad for European exporters - it's also bad for US consumers.

As an example, I really like Ravensburger puzzles (manufactured in Germany). In fact, their high quality has lead me to prefer them to their American competitors. Now, however, it'll cost me that much more to get 'em, since my American dollars have to pay for production and labor that were bought with Euros. So Ravensburger suffers on one end of the transaction, and I suffer on the other end.

This also hurts any American company that uses some precursor part from Belgium, for example. The US company pays in dollars for stuff priced in Euros, and the exchange rate hurts the local buyer - a pain which is passed on to the US consumer of whatever the finished good might be.

JasonL | June 22, 2007, 10:57am | #

"Countriees with socialized medicine have a much bigger geriatric problem than we do. All those old geezers! Fuck, we are screwed."

If we go socialized, there are two choices, other countries start paying for development or no one does. Due to the aging demographic primarily interested in access and not giving a crap about development they may never get to see, I'm guessing we get the latter. Development stalls to near nothing and everyone is happy. After all, if nobody invents anything, you can't be mad that it costs a lot.

VM | June 22, 2007, 10:58am | #

I had read it as a generalization, not based on your specific reason - those puzzles are AWESOME! I've heard that argument ("the weak dollar") from nativists, and I had (knee jerked?) read it that way.

Do you know the game "Scotland Yard" (hier). It's lots of fun.

but yeah - I am kinda aware of the mechanisms you're describing :)

(and my "Bulle von Tölz" series is costlier. /kicks pebble)

dead_elvis | June 22, 2007, 11:00am | #

Here's some good news for modern man:

lol...

Wasn't that the one that showed that people in biblical times were all faceless stick-people?

Reinmoose | June 22, 2007, 11:07am | #

I for one am happier with my HMO than most of those topics polled, largely because, like the other things, HMOs take my money even though I don't use their services, but for the most part they leave me the fuck alone.

A weak dollar also means more tourism in the US

VM | June 22, 2007, 11:09am | #

Rein-

there are definitely different forces and reactions to the relative position of the dollar. Some positive, some negative.

This is an absolute fantastic time (as was 1994/1995) for someone I know who does lots of bidnez in good ol' Doitschland... but it make's our wine guy's prices increase (hrumph)

:)

Jake Boone | June 22, 2007, 11:11am | #

Do you know the game "Scotland Yard" (hier). It's lots of fun.

Know it? I own it!

I sincerely thank you for the opportunity to geek out about board games here at H&R in a totally unrelated thread. :)

My mostly (but not entirely) complete boardgamegeek game collection is hier.

URKOBOLD&trade | June 22, 2007, 11:16am | #

My mostly (but not entirely) complete boardgamegeek game collection is hier.

URKOBOLD DOES NOT UNDERSTAND YOU GEEKS.

VM | June 22, 2007, 11:18am | #

*Bows to the Board Game Meister*

At Water Tower Place in Chicago there's a shop called "Gamers Paradise". It's awesome!

joe | June 22, 2007, 11:23am | #

HMO's spend 20-30% of their budgets on admin and advertising, JasonL. The comparable figure for Medicare is 2%.

That's an awful lot of money to reprogram for research, even if you postulate a big reduction in overall spending.

Jake Boone | June 22, 2007, 11:34am | #

I am far from Chicago, so no Gamers Paradise for me, I'm afraid. Still, Aloha, Oregon does have Rainy Day Games, which is the very best game store I've ever set foot in. It's near enough to Portland that I can swing by there whenever I'm up that way.

CFisher | June 22, 2007, 11:45am | #

Same story every year. Everyone is pissed off and hates the government, no one ever bothers to get off their butt and protest or try to do something about it.

They just mindlessly go to the polls and select the next candidate that's been pre-ordained by the same ninnies that gave us our current Fearless Leader.

James Anderson Merritt | June 22, 2007, 11:48am | #

"The very low ratings for Congress suggest that Americans may be upset that their elected representatives have not been able to rectify these concerns as well."

GOP won't do it; Demos can't do it. Give the Libertarians a shot. They couldn't do worse and they have the potential for doing a lot better. We have nothing to lose but our chains.

J sub D | June 22, 2007, 11:52am | #

Ask my opinion of approval ratings.

O.K.
M: How do you feel about approval ratings?

a) Strongly Approve
b) Somewhat Approve
c) Somewhat Disapprove
d) Strongly Disapprove
e) Don't give a goddam rat's ass.

James Anderson Merritt | June 22, 2007, 11:56am | #

Abdul said, "Or did people just rate the reunion of Sting, Andy Summers and Stewart Copeland?"

The reunion concert in Oakland wasn't bad at all. I certainly would rate it much higher than Congress or HMOs, though not near the top, as the American Public seems to have done. ;-)

But if we're being honest: Cas Haley's version of "Walking on the Moon" on "America's Got Talent" last week was a lot more interesting -- for free, on the telly! -- than Sting's version of the same song, which I paid good money to hear in person the week before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8eV3xhIw8A

J sub D | June 22, 2007, 12:00pm | #

but it make's our wine guy's prices increase (hrumph)

Think Globally
Get shitfaced locally.

There is so much great wine produced in the U.S.A.

J sub D | June 22, 2007, 12:11pm | #

I wonder what be the results if the survey was done on posters at Hit & Run.

I am saddened that cops did as well as they did.

Isaac Bartram | June 22, 2007, 12:12pm | #

That's 31/38 percent who are HAPPY with The medical system. They're the ones, like me, who can afford to pay for it.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Correction to 10:16am post:

I wonder if the 69/62 percent who are unhappy with "The medical system" aren't really just unhappy with the fact that they have to pay for it.

Edward, my saying I'm dissatisfied the fact that I don't get an Audi R8 for free says absolutely nothing about the quality or performance of said Audi R8.

My being unable to afford something is irrelevant except that it might lead to further dissatisfaction. Again this dissatisfaction has nothing to do with the quality of the item at hand.

I might add that a great many of the people who complain about the cost of medical care can quite handily afford it. It's just that they might have to forego some spending on other items. This might be a problem if those items were necessities but generally they are not.

Isaac Bartram | June 22, 2007, 12:24pm | #

James Anderson Merritt

Remember libertarians are unhappy about the fact that Congress won't leave them alone.

But, for the most part those in the general population who are dissatisfied with Congress are that way because Congress won't vote them boatloads of free stuff.

Reinmoose | June 22, 2007, 12:26pm | #

But, for the most part those in the general population who are dissatisfied with Congress are that way because Congress won't vote them boatloads of free stuff.

Point's been made quite a few times already, dude. Still valid though.
Also, I would change "free" to "fucking expensive, but cheap quality"

J sub D | June 22, 2007, 12:27pm | #

13) American Idol
14) Baseball
15) Tight clothes on fat people

Baseball? Man, baseball is so cool. I don't see hao anybady could be dissatisfied with it.

rob | June 22, 2007, 12:38pm | #

"even the joes and Johns of the world are going to find something in there to hate right along with us. It's sort of like the way that Phantom Menace was packed so chock full of crap that even non-Star Wars fanboys could find something to loathe in it."

Jake - I'm totally with you, man... that part probably didn't come through in my post.

"Although rob's ongoing mancrush on me is running a close second." - joe

Of course, this delusion you have about other men having crushes on you probably goes a long Freudian way toward explaining why you think referring to other people by girls names (and other homophobic/misogynistic-tinted references) are humorous insults... Self-hatred is sad.

But it's actually OK with me if you're gay, joe, I just don't swing that way. Sorry, bro.

(Please don't show up and shoot me in my kitchen for rejecting you, like Kevin Spacey's crazed neighbor in "American Beauty!")

rob | June 22, 2007, 1:01pm | #

"If I was actually the knee-jerk partisan you contend, and you were such an above-the-fray objective observer, I wouldn't have such a vastly surperior record of being right on issues of contention compared to you." - joe

What IS it like, living on DelusionWorld? You love to claim that anyone who disagrees with you - like I often do - is a Republican, even when that is blatantly untrue... Name a few positions the DNC supports that you don't, or vice versa, and maybe people will consider you as more of free-thinker than a blind partisan.

I've never claimed to be an "above-the-fray" observer, I definitely have a point of view and an approach to the issues. (I've just pointed out that I'm not a party partisan.) Unlike you, my POV isn't based on one side's partisan talking points but on a general philosophy that advocates for individual rights, respect for democracy, the rule of law, limited gov't, free-market capitalism, etc.

Which is why I can be supportive of the entire Bill of Rights (instead of trying to pick and choose amongst them, like the two parties do).

This philosophy leads me to rationally choose to be pro-choice, anti-death penalty, pro-free market, anti-monopoly, anti-drug war, etc.)

While we undoubtedly agree on a lot of issues, the ones we argue about lead you to believe I'm your enemy. You're right - I'm against your entire philosophical approach of

- selectively endorsing only the individual rights you like and endorsing attempts to hinder those you don't

- negligible respect for the results of democracy when things don't go your way in an election

- dismissing the equitable rule of law when it doesn't decide an issue in favor of your position

- support for leviathan growth of authoritarian gov't

- hamstringing capitalism through gov't regulation

Funny you can't see that those are things both the Republicans and Democrats have in common, and why both sides draw my ire.

"Unless you want to contend that reflexive Democratic partisanship is a reliable path to the truth, which I doubt." - joe

Not anymore than I'd want to claim that about Republican partisanship!

Virgil R. | June 22, 2007, 1:03pm | #

The 'problem' is easily explained: Telephones.
The only people who answer a telephone these days are miserable deadbeats. (OK, I do sometimes.) Happy, successful people have call-screeing, or can't be bothered with stupid phone-pollers, or exclusively use cell phones, are at work when Gallup calls, etc.

highnumber | June 22, 2007, 1:40pm | #

Think Globally
Get shitfaced locally.
There is so much great wine produced in the U.S.A.

That's like saying "why do you listen to all those British bands? There's so many great American rock bands."

On the board game note, we had a couple over to play OakParkopoly a few months ago. The guy had hand made a monopoly game themed to our town and we had bought it at the annual church auction. It turned out that he is a total geek for board games and he taught us a lot about the history of Monopoly. He's written a book about it. I had no idea that the game was created to promote Henry George's ideas.

On another note, jimmy, "Itchy Ass Syndrome"?

Pain | June 22, 2007, 1:57pm | #

HMO's spend 20-30% of their budgets on admin and advertising, JasonL. The comparable figure for Medicare is 2%.

That's an awful lot of money to reprogram for research, even if you postulate a big reduction in overall spending.

Sorry joe, but that's a misleading stat if it's accurate.

I work at a healthcare company that deals with Medicare/Medicaid billing issues. The reason for such a low admin cost, if true, is because all the admin is forced on the private companies. The state just cuts a check. The rest of it is left up to private companies to navigate the tangle of beauracracy that is medicare/medicaid. That alone costs thousands and thousands of manhours. This doesn't even touch on the waste when medicaid applicants are put on hold for MONTHS to have their elgibilty checked. In the meantime the company has to continue to provide service. If approved the company gets their money, minus the interest and manhours used during the wait of course. If the applicant is denied the company is probably going to get stuck with a write off.

Yeah no waste their.

joe | June 22, 2007, 1:58pm | #

rob,

"What IS it like, living on DelusionWorld?"

It's sort of like Iraq, except the schools don't get painted as often, and success isn't just around the corner quite so often. Mote, beam, loonie-toons.

"You love to claim that anyone who disagrees with you - like I often do - is a Republican"

No, there are a lot of people I disagree with who aren't Republicans. You just don't happen to be among them. It's not too hard to figure out the difference - actual non-partisans actually write posts criticizing Republicans, unlike yourself.

"Name a few positions the DNC supports that you don't, or vice versa," I don't know what positions "the DNC" supports. I argue against positions individual Democrats take on a regular basis.

"I've never claimed to be an "above-the-fray" observer, I definitely have a point of view and an approach to the issues." Yes, a Republican one, which you deny, and prefer to pose as a "non-partisan," independent thinker, while you launch all of your fire at Democrats, and only at Democrats.

"(I've just pointed out that I'm not a party partisan.) Unlike you, my POV isn't based on one side's partisan talking points..."

As you keep reminding us. In little parenthetical asides. That you put in your posts while criticizing Democrats, and only Democrats, while making arguments that come directly from Republican talking points.

"Funny you can't see that those are things both the Republicans and Democrats have in common, and why both sides draw my ire."

Actually, the Republicans don't seem to draw your ire. Ever. At least, not in any way that ever leads you to write comments criticizing them.

joe | June 22, 2007, 2:00pm | #

Pain,

You assume that all of that effort would be duplicated in a single-payer system, when in fact, a great deal of it would be outright eliminated.

JasonL | June 22, 2007, 2:02pm | #

"HMO's spend 20-30% of their budgets on admin and advertising, JasonL. The comparable figure for Medicare is 2%.

That's an awful lot of money to reprogram for research, even if you postulate a big reduction in overall spending."

If I remotely believed either that those numbers would hold or that 'reprogramming' money to research would have the desired effect, I wouldn't be so terrified. Don't worry. I have no doubt your side will win. I also have no doubt that people will be happy with the results and never once dwell on what could have been. It is like watching a train wreck 25 years in the making for me.

VM | June 22, 2007, 2:13pm | #

J Sub D:

agreed! but Grüner Vetliner is Austrian.

We just had a Syrah from Peay Brothers, Sonoma Coast, CA. AMAZING!!!!

Russian River (Dutton); Iron Horse.

yeaaaaa!

Chucklehead | June 22, 2007, 2:21pm | #

A big thanks to VM and Jake Boone for the link to that board game site. Not only did I just waste an hour of company time, but now I'm planning on stopping by the hobby shop on my way home...

Jake Boone | June 22, 2007, 2:35pm | #

Glad to be of... well, disservice, kinda. :)

jh | June 22, 2007, 2:38pm | #

"I could go on, but I'm tired... y'all can probably continue the list.

13) American Idol
14) Baseball
15) Tight clothes on fat people
..."

16) Phat clothes on tight people.

VM | June 22, 2007, 2:57pm | #

Chuckle

please all credit to Jake (although I do accept any blame for being a part of things) - he is DA MAN when it comes to games. Awesome.

Edward | June 22, 2007, 3:22pm | #

Health care is for whimps. It's better to live free and die from some preventable illness than submit to the slavery of socialized medicine. It's bad enough that we're forced to drink tap water that has been purified by government bureaucrats. Bring on the e-coli! The intestines of the truly free and the resolutely brave can take it.

highnumber | June 22, 2007, 7:42pm | #

Edward,

Are you the less kind and less gentle version of Dan T.?

Is gamma radiation somehow involved?

Edward | June 22, 2007, 7:49pm | #

highnumber

Dan T. is a troll.

highnumber | June 22, 2007, 8:49pm | #

What are you?

Edward | June 22, 2007, 11:53pm | #

highnumber,

I'm a card fucking carrying Hayek-reading right-wing anti-state pro-freedom ass-kicking get-your-nanny-state-nose-outa-my-healthcare-you-mother-fucking-socialist-LIBERTARIAN. What are you?

rob | June 23, 2007, 11:03am | #

"Actually, the Republicans don't seem to draw your ire. Ever. At least, not in any way that ever leads you to write comments criticizing them." - joe

Like I've said before, I would, but you refuse to argue the Republican's points. In other words, it's not that I don't gladly hammer Republicans, it's that most of my posts here are in direct opposition to the nonsense you spout - which I find to be particularly odious and statist/authoritarian.

If you'd argue a few more points that were statist/authoritarian from the Republican viewpoint, I'd gladly hammer you on those points as well. But you're such a partisan you actually beleive that the only people who would disagree with you are Republicans.

It's an interesting paradigm for a left-leaning guy who mostly posts on a libertarian blog...

And no, I'm still not going to the prom with you. Salma Hayek asked me first, and I really dig her last name.

Michael Keaton | June 23, 2007, 11:20am | #

'm a card fucking carrying Hayek-reading right-wing anti-state pro-freedom ass-kicking get-your-nanny-state-nose-outa-my-healthcare-you-mother-fucking-socialist-LIBERTARIAN. What are you?

I'm Batman.

J sub D | June 23, 2007, 2:25pm | #

That's like saying "why do you listen to all those British bands? There's so many great American rock bands."

I graciously concede the point to a valid, succinct argument.

highnumber | June 23, 2007, 8:51pm | #

Edward,

I'm not right-wing.

Edward | June 24, 2007, 7:33pm | #

highnumber

Who said you were?

Single Issue Voter | June 24, 2007, 8:03pm | #

"I'm not right-wing."

Clearly identies one as not libertarian.

Edward | June 25, 2007, 1:18pm | #

Single Issue Voter

You have rocks in your head. There are certainly left-wing libertarians. Name one? Chomsky.