Cesar Chavez Wants to Kill Your Children!

Georgia Rep. Charlie Norwood died of cancer last month, opening up his safe Republican seat for a special election. And the frontrunner for that seat is... this guy.

In an effort to elevate himself to the national stage, [State Sen. Jim] Whitehead said the nation’s dilemma with immigration is more serious than an influx of undocumented workers and a drain on social services. He said Venezuelan President Cesar Chavez is “teaching al-Qaeda and people like that, terrorists, how to come across the border, look like Mexicans, act like Mexicans and understand how to talk in this country. They’re coming across just as fast as the Mexicans cross.”

So far, there have been no terrorist attacks linked to illegal border crossings. But the United States has ordered National Guard troops to the border and authorized the building of a massive fence.

Terrorists receive training in Venezuela before crossing the border, Sen. Whitehead said. But it’s more of an educational system than training camps, which would be targets for military action, he said. He said he would support a pre-emptive strike on Venezuela if facts justify it.

Four years into the Iraq War and Republican candidates are still arguing for preemptive wars against third-worlders who aren't actually attacking us. Fantastic! So how much support will this point of view garner in the primary?

I laughed off the bumbling Hugo Chavez almost a year ago.

Comments

de stijl | March 23, 2007, 11:14am | #

I seriously believe that if we had a lottery instead of elections, we'd have a more capable legislature.

Guy Montag | March 23, 2007, 11:15am | #

Enough about preemptive wars, are the British going to nuke Iran for capturing their sailors?

I thought that was an act of war back before PC war became so popular.

FinFangFoom | March 23, 2007, 11:15am | #

The thing that struck me when reading the April story by Malia Politzer is that heightening border security probably increases the chances of terrorists using that to sneak into the country. The demand for getting into this country is high enough and the increased security creates the "highways" needed to get into this country illegally with relative ease. Further, the unsavoriness of the characters operating them increases with the level of risk.

If we just had a guestworker program and asked everybody to supply documentation, there would be less of a chance of anybody sneaking in.

Mike | March 23, 2007, 11:16am | #

Just another reason I've given up on both parties in congress.

Guy Montag | March 23, 2007, 11:17am | #

BTW, if the accusations are true about Chavez training terrorists to infiltrate (I have no idea if that is true or not), how would attacking them be "preemptive"? I believe retaliation would be a more proper word.

You know, like when a country shoots at our military aircraft for 10 years and then we take the gloves off?

thoreau | March 23, 2007, 11:21am | #

Paging Lonewacko! Paging Lonewacko!

steveintheknow | March 23, 2007, 11:26am | #

Oh LORD!

Cesar Chavez, Hugo, whatever. I don't care what the guys name is. All I know is that there is a terrorist problem down in Ecuador right now! What we need to do is support our troops and send in the B-2s to take out Bogota IMEDIATELY!

FinFangFoom | March 23, 2007, 11:28am | #

We should send in Julio Cesar Chavez to take him out.

Guy Montag | March 23, 2007, 11:32am | #

How about Caesar Romero?

highnumber | March 23, 2007, 11:33am | #

Is this really in Lonewhacker's purview? He's more concerned with the US turning itself over to the Great Power of Mexico. You know, like secret plans he's uncovered to annex Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and southern California, or the secret announced plans to build a highway that traverses North America.

What am I saying? Of course he'll have something to say about some politician who is in league with the Great Brown Threat.

Timothy | March 23, 2007, 11:33am | #

Hugo, Cesar, all those brown people names sound the same...especially when you're from a state that's 1200 miles from the border.

Isaac Bartram | March 23, 2007, 11:37am | #

steveintheknow, LOL, I'll bet Sen. Jim Whitehead is looking for a good speechwriter. With material like that you'er a shoo-in for the job.

We laugh, but I think this guy's a winner.

Guy Montag, I think I'd want better documentation before mounting a "retaliatory" raid than the rantings of a guy who can't even get that president's name right. Wouldn't you?

lunchstealer | March 23, 2007, 11:40am | #

We need to stop terrorist and insurgent sympathizers wherever they're found. I recently found out about another insurgent supporter with a suspicious name who's actually a local hero in Delaware. Some guy named Caesar Rodney has apparently been going around warning people when the lawful authorities are coming to enforce our laws. Delaware, of all places! They could undermine all our biggest corporations! And the guy's a local folk hero there. With statues and everything!

And don't get me started on the threat from Caesar Romero.

Timothy | March 23, 2007, 11:42am | #

And don't get me started on the threat from Caesar Romero.

Not to be confused with the threat from Corky Romano.

Guy Montag | March 23, 2007, 11:44am | #

Guy Montag, I think I'd want better documentation before mounting a "retaliatory" raid than the rantings of a guy who can't even get that president's name right. Wouldn't you?

Yes, and I thought I covered that in a completly different manner.

The Wine Commonsewer | March 23, 2007, 11:48am | #

I laughed off the bumbling Hugo Chavez almost a year ago.

Yes, David, but the only threat most libertarians are really afraid of is Ned Flanders.

And as far as that goes, Whitehead is probably at least as good at intelligence gathering as the CIA or the FBI, so who knows?

Ned Flanders | March 23, 2007, 11:50am | #

Feels like I'm wearing nothing at all!

CFisher | March 23, 2007, 11:55am | #

Oh dear God.

Is it too much to ask that if we must be afflicted with a federal government that we get people who will at least read a newspaper article on the country they want to bomb next?

I second the lottery motion, but I say expand it to all government offices. Somehow I don’t think we could do any worse than the authoritarian morons we get now.

steveintheknow | March 23, 2007, 11:57am | #

-Isaac

Jim Whitehead is looking for a good speechwriter

Yes. Yes I agree. Those informal speechwriting classes at the community college are finally paying off. Plus I have been brushing up on the gospels – Mathew, Mark, Luke, and Jim. Combine that with my understanding that Illegal is Illegal, and that immigration is the most imminent threat – next to le Islamo-fascinista -to the bald Eagle we have ever faced, I should be a shoe in. My only reservation is that our good Lord and Savior Jesus H. Christ was himself a Mejican at one point – before he was born again, of course. However when I ask myself “-intheknow, what would Christ do?” the answer is obvious, he would get all blowed-up on some of dat-ass! As a result I haven’t eaten a taco in at least 4 days!

:)

de stijl | March 23, 2007, 12:00pm | #

As a result I haven’t eaten a taco in at least 4 days!

To real 'merkins they're called "freedom pitas."

Skiing Homer | March 23, 2007, 12:01pm | #

Stupid sexy Flanders!

Lamar | March 23, 2007, 12:03pm | #

"if the accusations are true about Chavez training terrorists to infiltrate (I have no idea if that is true or not), how would attacking them be "preemptive"

I think the point is that Whitehead has no clue about the region (neither Latin America nor the Middle East), yet he's very comfortable making inflammatory claims to get elected.

steveintheknow | March 23, 2007, 12:07pm | #

Rewind.

".satip modeerf" dellac er'yeht snikrem' laer oT

Replay.

To real 'merkins they're called "freedom pitas."

FinFangFoom | March 23, 2007, 12:07pm | #

I think we should send George Romero.

Joe | March 23, 2007, 12:09pm | #

Who benefits?

de stijl | March 23, 2007, 12:10pm | #

steveintheknow,

Woulda been better if I hadn't fucked up the italics.

Marcos Carvalho | March 23, 2007, 12:13pm | #

Cesar Chavez is the leader of the United Farmer's Union, he's an American and a great American at that! Hugo Chavez is the nut-job controlling Venezuela, and not even he is crazy enough to attempt anything like that!

Aresen | March 23, 2007, 12:15pm | #

It's all part of a cunning plan to distract your attention south, so you won't pay attention to the Frostback Conspiracy.

First, it was Lorne Greene.
Then, Trivial Pursuit.

Now it's on to universal medicare and phasing out the dollar bill.

Before you know it, we'll be sending down massive cold fronts to paralyze the Midwest and Northeast. [Hmmm. Didn't we do that a couple of weeks back.]

(finishes with an evil sniffle)

Guy Montag | March 23, 2007, 12:15pm | #

Marcos Carvalho,

And Caeser Romero almst killed Batman.

highnumber | March 23, 2007, 12:16pm | #

To real 'merkins they're called "freedom pitas."

There's a moose who passes through here on occasion who is going to want to talk to you.

VM | March 23, 2007, 12:18pm | #

[looks up]

snort?

[ambles off]

are in ur nursery eatin ur babies!

de stijl | March 23, 2007, 12:19pm | #

Sid Caesar was on Your Show Of Shows and did lots of funny, borcshty accents.

anon | March 23, 2007, 12:20pm | #

You know, like when a country shoots at our military aircraft for 10 years and then we take the gloves off?

Are you this divorced from reality. Iraq was not shooting at your military aircraft flying in US or international airspace. They were shooting at them in Iraqi airspace after repeated bombing campaigns by your "defensive" military.

steveintheknow | March 23, 2007, 12:20pm | #

de stijl

No worries, ya done good.

Merkin references, like merkins, make everything deluxe. :)

de stijl | March 23, 2007, 12:21pm | #

There's a moose who passes through here on occasion who is going to want to talk to you.

Will pebbles be kicked?

VM | March 23, 2007, 12:22pm | #

go 'way! 'batin'!

/kicks pebble

(steveintheknow - clicky on namey)

Guy Montag | March 23, 2007, 12:23pm | #

Are you this divorced from reality. Iraq was not shooting at your military aircraft flying in US or international airspace. They were shooting at them in Iraqi airspace after repeated bombing campaigns by your "defensive" military

Divorcing from reality? Are you trying to say that they had no business enforcing a surrender agreement in the manner set forth in the agreement?

de stijl | March 23, 2007, 12:24pm | #

Chavs are yobbish UK yoots fixated on Burberry, bad bling, and hoodies.

steveintheknow | March 23, 2007, 12:25pm | #

HEY OHHHHH!!!

Thats what I'm talkin' 'bout!

Wait, hold on, the IT guy is calling me...

Timothy | March 23, 2007, 12:27pm | #

I was divorced from reality once, the bitch took half my stuff. Messy business. At least she never caught me fucking her sister.

Drew W | March 23, 2007, 12:28pm | #

Don't dismiss Whitehead as just another ignorant xenophobe. He got the right Chavez alright.

Forget the president of Venezuela. Those damned socialist farm-working Latinos are turning our own grapes against us. Maybe now Homeland Security will stop snickering at Whitehead's insistence that the California Raisins be detained for questioning.

The fact that Cesar Chavez has managed all this while being dead for nearly 14 years is only further evidence of his treachery.

edna | March 23, 2007, 12:28pm | #

the guy is a state senator. really, who cares? if you want to find stupid stuff from state senators or assemblymen, there's so many of them and they're so anonymous that it's fish/barrel time.

FinFangFoom | March 23, 2007, 12:41pm | #

How the hell did Burberry become low rent? I just know them for their awesome rain coats.

lunchstealer | March 23, 2007, 12:43pm | #

And then there's Victor Hugo, which, if the history lesson I've taken from 300 serves me right, was the hunchback who betrayed the Spartans to the forces of Sauron at Helm's Deep. He's clearly tied up in this sinister plan somehow.

FinFangFoom | March 23, 2007, 12:48pm | #

I would say that lunchstealer wins the thread, but it would have been funnier if he had gotten the LOTR bad guys right.

GILMORE | March 23, 2007, 12:49pm | #

If we wait until we KNOW the Venezuelans are training terrorists, then IT WILL BE TOO LATE. Also, it will bring a message of hope to all the oppressed people in the region, and democracy will spread like a million poppies, waiting to be harvested into the world's largest opium crop in history.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/cc6c18fc-0b56-11db-b97f-0000779e2340.html

Shelby | March 23, 2007, 12:52pm | #

He said he would support a pre-emptive strike on Venezuela if facts justify it.

So? I'd support a pre-emptive strike on Portland if facts justify it, and I live there. I just think it's inconcievable that the facts would ever justify it.

highnumber | March 23, 2007, 12:52pm | #

I would say that lunchstealer wins the thread, but it would have been funnier if he had gotten the LOTR bad guys right.

You have no concept of your own geekiness, do you?

R C Dean | March 23, 2007, 12:53pm | #

I'm curious:

Just how is making a pre-emptive strike that is justified by the facts controversial, again?

de stijl | March 23, 2007, 12:53pm | #

How the hell did Burberry become low rent?

Personally, I blame Becks and Posh.

Mr. Steven Crane | March 23, 2007, 12:56pm | #

comb your beard, i don't wanna hear that shit.

hay. hay high-number! you should see the lake today, dewd. fuckin' gorgeous.

so moose i went to der chicago brauhaus the other night. man that stiegl sure is good. i dunno about the house band tho. where's falco when you need him?

fscking kansas. wtf is "rock-chalk" anyway?

BakedPenguin | March 23, 2007, 12:57pm | #

...the hunchback who betrayed the Spartans to the forces of Sauron at Helm's Deep

I thought that was Hugo Mortensen...

FinFangFoom | March 23, 2007, 1:00pm | #

highnumber, I have an extremely high concept of my own geekiness.

de stijl | March 23, 2007, 1:00pm | #

Just how is making a pre-emptive strike that is justified by the facts controversial, again?

It worked out perfectly fine in the past, right? Remember the Maine, Gulf of Tonkin, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"

Guy Montag | March 23, 2007, 1:05pm | #

Just how is making a pre-emptive strike that is justified by the facts controversial, again?

If the facts justified it, i.e., some other country was training insurgents and sending them to our country, then it certainly would not be preemptive.

Rick H. | March 23, 2007, 1:06pm | #

Just how is making a pre-emptive strike that is justified by the facts controversial, again?

...and welcome to RCD's No-Spin Zone.

lunchstealer | March 23, 2007, 1:07pm | #

What, we've gotten all the way to George Romero from Hugo Chavez and you're expecting me to miss an opportunity to mix up Sauron and Sauruman?

I was just disappointed that I couldn't figure out how to work in a Braveheart joke or a Ted Theodore Logan / Wolverine joke.

FinFangFoom | March 23, 2007, 1:16pm | #

Come on lunchstealer, confusing the Lord of the Rings and the Savage Land just doesn't make sense.

highnumber | March 23, 2007, 1:17pm | #

High concept geekiness.
That sounds like an excerpt from a review of a Kraftwerk album.

Mr Crane,
Grey sky + rainy = boring lake.
I'm on to you. Enjoy your bike ride.

Lamar | March 23, 2007, 1:17pm | #

"Just how is making a pre-emptive strike that is justified by the facts controversial, again?"

Because the very nature of preemption assumes that the other party has not done anything against your interests, but may do so in the future. Given the level of speculation necessary, it is no wonder that the facts are never as factual as you would like to think. See, for example, WMDs.

Eric S. | March 23, 2007, 1:23pm | #

Now wait a second here.

I realize Mr. Weigel has a particular agenda on this board, but like HFCS, we don't like to talk about it. Nevertheless, this little post is written to imply that Mr. Congresscritter doesn't even know who the President of Venezuela is, confusing him w/ Cesar Chavez, going so far as to provide a portrait from Time mag. This elicits predictable comments like CFisher's @ 11:55am. But I just read that article and it looks to me like the writer, and not Whitehead, fucked that up. Chavez's name is not in quotes, so it's wholly unfair to attribute said error to Mr. Whitehead.

It's still fair to attack Whitehead's argument, but to imply he's a dipshit who doesn't know the difference between Cesar and Hugo is, well, I dunno . . . advancing an agenda.

lunchstealer | March 23, 2007, 1:27pm | #

Eric S,

That agenda is to advance snark-based humor. It's not nearly as funny to make fun of a journalist as a politician.

Mr. Steven Crane | March 23, 2007, 1:27pm | #

what highnumber?

sorry i didn't get what you just said. see i cracked open a really fizzy bottle of nehi cola and the bubbles done drowned you out.

there is a CERA meeting tonight. why do they put these things on friday nights? i'm freakin' busy.

downstater | March 23, 2007, 1:33pm | #

wtf is "rock-chalk" anyway?

i heard rock-chalk was some reference to chalking up the number dead missourians during the border hostilities around there - on a rock i guess. and then something about jayhawks. or some stupid KU thing like that. either way, it's stupid.

Steve | March 23, 2007, 1:36pm | #

If we have learned any lessons from the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive war, it is that all pre-emptive strikes should be of the nuclear variety. That way there is no evidence left behind that can prove that you just pulled the whole imminent threat thing out of your ass. All of country X's WMDs must have been stored in a big pile located in the center of that gigantic smoking crater.

Happy Jack | March 23, 2007, 1:45pm | #

Some guy named Caesar Rodney

Some guy named Fernando Rodney committed an error for Detroit in the World Series. Detroit is next to Dearborn. Dearborn has the largest concentration of Arabs in the US.

The plot thickens.

P Brooks | March 23, 2007, 1:49pm | #

"I laughed off the bumbling Hugo Chavez almost a year ago."

Not content with shilling for the Godless Commie Chavez, Weigal turned to throwing up smokescreens behind which the maniacal genius could work his anti-American magic.

R C Dean | March 23, 2007, 1:54pm | #

Because the very nature of preemption assumes that the other party has not done anything against your interests, but may do so in the future. Given the level of speculation necessary, it is no wonder that the facts are never as factual as you would like to think.

Finally a rational answer. I was just wondering if anyone had ever given any thought to the issue, or if the analysis was on the level of "pre-emption is teh suxxor!"

So basically, the argument is that pre-emptive military action can never justified by the facts, and so I presume can never be justified. Is that the take-away?

R C Dean | March 23, 2007, 1:56pm | #

Oops, clicked too soon. One more:

So first strike always goes to the enemy?

Lamar | March 23, 2007, 2:02pm | #

I guess the justification of preemption lies along a continuum. At one end is Iraq, where the threat is purely speculative and political, and closer to the other end is Israel's 1967 preemptive attack. There was never any real doubt that Israel was going to be attacked. With Iraq it was pretty clear that the US was never going to be attacked by Iraq. Ever.

Help for libertarians | March 23, 2007, 2:05pm | #

Fun facts you won't learn from teh hacks at Reason:

* HezbollahTerrorists have actually entered illegally over the border; they were only caught one year later (details at the link).

* The contention that there "have been no terrorist attacks linked to illegal border crossings" depends on your definition of "linked". The 911Hijackers got DriversLicenses due to the IllegalImmigration infrastructure.

* Others - including non-elected government officals - have spoken about attempts by terrorists to "Mexicanize" themselves in order to infiltrate the U.S.

* Read the 911Commission StaffReport, specifically Chapter3.

On a side note, could Reason post an "off topic" thread just for cutesy comments, leaving more space for a grown-up discussion of these matters? (Of course, you'd need to import grown-ups from other sites to provide content, but that's an implementation issue).

Lamar | March 23, 2007, 2:12pm | #

And by "grown up" he means "lone wacko." That's rich.

Happy Jack | March 23, 2007, 2:19pm | #

Because the very nature of preemption assumes that the other party has not done anything against your interests, but may do so in the future.

You're conflating two different concepts. If, for example, a country is loading anthrax onto drones on the tarmac, and you launch a cruise missle at them, that's pre-emptive.

However, if a shady exile tells you a tall tale about said drones, and you strike, that's preventative.

Lamar | March 23, 2007, 2:26pm | #

Happy Jack:

Assuming you meant "preventive" I have to disagree. Both preemptive attacks and preventive attacks are the same thing, differing only in the post facto legal justification. In other words, the same sequence of events will be called preventive by opponents and preemptive by supporters.

You are correct that these are two different concepts, but they differ only in the rhetoric of how real the threat is.

Mark | March 23, 2007, 2:39pm | #

Quick serious comment: I find it easy to laugh off Hugo Chavez himself, but much harder to laugh off the ideas he's promoting.

ChrisO | March 23, 2007, 2:57pm | #

Hugo Chavez undoubtedly has a future appointment with a bullet fired by some Venezuelan junior colonel and his friends. Pretty much just Juan Peron without the blond wife.

Of course, after a few years the Venezuelan peasantry is going to discover that they are still living in the same hillside hovels, and that all of that oil wealth has *magically disappeared*. How could that happen?

Happy Jack | March 23, 2007, 2:58pm | #

Both preemptive attacks and preventive attacks are the same thing, differing only in the post facto legal justification.

Lamar, that's not my understanding of international law. While you could quibble about the meaning of "imminent", they differentiate between short and long-term threats. See here.

Lamar | March 23, 2007, 3:10pm | #

First, international law is not like the law of a country. There is no precedent and very weak enforcement. The whole thing is based on post facto justifications. I know that there is a difference in concepts, but that difference is nothing more than a post facto justification.

Second, the article you cited concedes, as it must, that the whole issue is self-defense (nobody disputes war after an actual attack). Whether we call it preemptive or preventive hinges on whether we see it as self-defense. And yes, there is a full analysis of the facts, but my point stands: preemtive and preventive are words that are applied after the determination is made regarding self-defense.

Third, read the piece before you make assertions that are contrary. A mere presence or transfer of weapons is never enough to justify an invasion.

Fifth, see my continuum argument above, perhaps we agree more than you think.

StupendousMan | March 23, 2007, 3:17pm | #

"A mere presence or transfer of weapons is never enough to justify an invasion."

That article is way to long to read at work(I'm lazy). Are you saying article makes this statement?

FinFangFoom | March 23, 2007, 3:32pm | #

lonewacko, will terrorists who are "Mexicanizing" themselves be like Sean Connery in You Only Live Twice becoming "Japanese," because if so, I imagine they'll be easy to spot.

Disappointed Moose | March 23, 2007, 3:40pm | #

FFF:

Even with the shaved chest???

Bond resembled Cartman's disguise when he tried to sneak into the Special Olympics...

/disappointed snort

de stijl | March 23, 2007, 3:42pm | #

FinFangFoom,

Just look for the dudes who talk like Cheech Martin, those would be your Mexicanized Islamo-SuperNanny terrorists.

Drop the Moose, chalupa. | March 23, 2007, 3:51pm | #

de stijl:

or they're dressed as lions!

Here's an example | March 23, 2007, 3:55pm | #

Obviously, grown-ups know that it's difficult for non-Japanese to pass as Japanese. However, with other ethnicities it's not so difficult. Some Middle-Easterners try to pass as Italian or Greek for instance.

An example of an Egyptian IllegalAlien pretending to be one MiguelAlfonsoSalinas at the link.

joe | March 23, 2007, 3:57pm | #

Red grapes.

That's all I got.

Is this a comment thread or an oil painting?

highnumber | March 23, 2007, 4:03pm | #

Mr Whackjob,

Maybe another blog would take you seriously.

Lamar | March 23, 2007, 4:07pm | #

StupendousMan:

"Are you saying article makes this statement?"

I would say that is the general consensus of international law over the last 100 years or so.

FinFangFoom | March 23, 2007, 4:11pm | #

Also, if I've learned anything from TV and Movies, its that whenever you look at a Muslim terrorist or something is about to happen, there's that Middle Eastern plaintive music. I think its the call to prayer, but it doubles as the terrorist leitmotif.

steveintheknow | March 23, 2007, 4:20pm | #

You mean all we have to do is close up the border and the terrorist can't get us?!

Some one should send the memo to Israel. I hear they have a little suicide bomber problem over there. And such a small border too. Damn shame I tell ya.

Wacko makes a good point (if you squint real hard): Italians and Greeks would NEVER want to be mistaken for middle easterners. Could you imagine? But with kids these days, one can never know.

Lamar | March 23, 2007, 4:27pm | #

If NYC's Little Italy is any indication, it isn't too difficult for Turkish men to pass as Italians.

VM | March 23, 2007, 4:30pm | #

"Italians and Greeks would NEVER want to be mistaken for middle easterners. Could you imagine? But with kids these days, one can never know."

good call:

cuz they all look same..... (hmmm)

"Mr Whackjob,
Maybe another blog would take you seriously."

Like:

hier(SFW)?

rob | March 23, 2007, 4:34pm | #

"Of course, after a few years the Venezuelan peasantry is going to discover that they are still living in the same hillside hovels, and that all of that oil wealth has *magically disappeared*. How could that happen?" - ChrisO

Sadly, this prediction is almost 100% likely to prove true...

See also, Jean-Bertrand Aristide and Haiti, Republic of. Here's a guy who came into power on the backs of the poor - in a democratic election, no less - then basically did nothing to help the poor people who had voted for him -after being put back into the presidency by U.S./U.N. military force. The slums of Cite Soleil, for instance, were as horrible as eer, the literacy rate still at a Hemisphere-wide low...

If you can't trust a Catholic priest from the slums to do right by the poor, rather than line his own pockets, who CAN you trust??

R C Dean | March 23, 2007, 4:48pm | #

If you can't trust a Catholic priest from the slums to do right by the poor, rather than line his own pockets, who CAN you trust??

A doctrinaire neo-Marxist with authoritarian tendencies and a sycophantic following in lefty salons?

joe | March 23, 2007, 4:50pm | #

"Hugo Chavez undoubtedly has a future appointment with a bullet fired by some Venezuelan junior colonel and his friends. Pretty much just Juan Peron without the blond wife."

We should hope not. Chavez came to power through democratic elections. We should be hoping that he gets removed from power through democratic elections. Right now, as bad as Chavez is, his continuation in office until his removal by the voters represents a rare oppotunity for constitutional democracy to take hold, and for coups and bloody rebellions to become part of Venezuela's past.

It's time for conservatives who've spent the past four years patting themselves on the back for their supporting democracy to bite the bullet, and recognize that a genuine commitment to democratic politics is a for-better-or-for-worse proposition.

rob | March 23, 2007, 4:56pm | #

'A doctrinaire neo-Marxist with authoritarian tendencies and a sycophantic following in lefty salons?" - RC Dean

Hmmm... Let's see...

No.
Final answer.

What do I win?

The Wine Commonsewer | March 23, 2007, 5:20pm | #

I dunno, Lunchstealer's was good, but Timothy is the real thread winner......

I was divorced from reality once, the bitch took half my stuff.

The Wine Commonsewer | March 23, 2007, 5:25pm | #

Now hang on, LoneWhacko does have a point, my good friend El Jeronimo de Crow, an Orangian of Mexican descent was constantly mistaken for an Arab while traveling the world. OTOH, my buddy Gonzalez is 6' 4" and as light skinned as the Pillsbury Doughboy, and he's not even a citizen.

TLB | March 23, 2007, 8:01pm | #

Anywho, here's a list of some of the things that the "libertarians" of Reason support:

- Massive PoliticalCorruption
- Massive LawBreaking
- Massive CorporateSubsidies
- Forced, Involuntary DemographicChange
- Increased PoliticalPower for the MexicanGovernment and FarLeft and RacialPower groups
- An inability to provide a NationalDefense

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's a fun page:

cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/CA/P/00/

Libertarian: Badnarik: 50,165 1%
Green Cobb: 40,771 0%
Peace & Freedom: Peltier 27,607 0%

Pluses: He got *almost twice as many votes as LeonardPeltier*.

Minuses: 199 out of 200 people didn't vote for him. I guess in the marketplace of ideas, Libertarianism is a penny stock.

joe | March 23, 2007, 8:36pm | #

OK, wacko, what's the deal with the UnusualCapitalization and AbsentSpaces?

SIV | March 23, 2007, 9:13pm | #

joe

There was another "Democratically elected"
politician-back in the early-mid 20th Century,
somewhere in Central Europe.......


Seriously, as you outed yourself as a CIA supporter in the Valerie Plame kerfuflle, you should support the American instigated assasination of Hugo Chavez as a threat to our interests. I mean c'mon joe you pledged patriotic alleigance to the CIA and that is what they DO....at least when they are being effective.

Akira MacKenzie | March 23, 2007, 11:15pm | #

As we are found of saying at the James Randi Educational Foundation forums when someone makes an insane statement like this:

"Evidence, please?"

smartass sob | March 24, 2007, 12:02am | #

[ If you can't trust a Catholic priest from the slums to do right by the poor, rather than line his own pockets, who CAN you trust??

A doctrinaire neo-Marxist with authoritarian tendencies and a sycophantic following in lefty salons? ]

Okay, I'm going to nominate R C Dean as the winner of this thread. In fact, I'd almost be willing to donate the first part of my handle as his prize.

Goldwater Conservative | March 24, 2007, 4:32am | #

I guess in the marketplace of ideas, Libertarianism is a penny stock.


Is this a popularity contest or something? The lack of acceptance of an idea doesn't reflect on the idea but those that accept or reject it. Since we are a fun time with stats, here is one for you:

In 1948, about 90% of American Adults opposed interracial marriage when the Supreme Court of California legalized it, and California became the first state that allowed loving, committed interracial couples to marry.

In 1967, about 72% were opposed to interracial marriage. This was the year when the U.S. Supreme Court was legalized interracial marriage everywhere in the U.S.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_marp.htm

Guy Montag | March 24, 2007, 8:39am | #

With Iraq it was pretty clear that the US was never going to be attacked by Iraq. Ever.

Are you talking about then they invaded our ally and we kicked them out, or are you talking about when they were shooting at us and our allies for 10 years before we ousted their leadership?

steveintheknow,

Seems someone mentioned this to Israel a few years ago and they built a series of walls and cut the suicide bombing rate down to almost 0. Noe that you have been informed, can you please tell that Israeli judge to stop moving the path of the wall and just let them finish?

Maybe you were talking about the rockets landing in Isreal, from Gaza.

VM | March 24, 2007, 8:58am | #

AuH2OC:

"loving, committed ... couples to marry."

well, if you check out some of the christian conservative types who masquerade as "theocratarians" here, they don't understand that fact in gay marriage. They only think (fantasize?) about what imagine sexual practice is like.

they don't get it.

biologist | March 24, 2007, 9:20am | #

Guy, clearly he's talking about the inability of Iraq to directly attack us on our borders - the actual, geographic boundaries of the US

VM:

yoo da man!

Guy Montag | March 24, 2007, 9:23am | #

Guy, clearly he's talking about the inability of Iraq to directly attack us on our borders - the actual, geographic boundaries of the US

So I have to go into some long speech about how we can be attacked outside of our borders and it should still "count"? Or that attacking our allies "counts" too?

Guy Montag | March 24, 2007, 9:26am | #

well, if you check out some of the christian conservative types who masquerade as "theocratarians" here, they don't understand that fact in gay marriage. They only think (fantasize?) about what imagine sexual practice is like.

That is certainly correct. On the other side of the coin you have a group of people who don't get that opposition to marriage as a bureaucratic means of property and benefit distrobution is not opposition to them.

VM | March 24, 2007, 10:38am | #

Biologist:
:)
Thank you, but YOO are da man!

You're the Capitan of the Pigskin Bus to Tuna Town!

(think: scene where Dr. Rosenberg meets Dracula at the fancy restaurant where they try hypnotizing each other to sleep:
[you're getting sleepy
[no you are
[no *you* are])

dhex, masochistic liberal | March 24, 2007, 11:33am | #

"- Forced, Involuntary DemographicChange"

white woman #1: oh you brown brutes! help me! help me! [swoon]

you forgot to mention marijuana and jazz - i mean, tejano.

highnumber | March 24, 2007, 3:41pm | #

dhex, you throwing a party?

TLB | March 24, 2007, 4:34pm | #

What we've been undergoing for the last four decades and especially the last decade is indeed a DemographicChange. We can agree on that, right?

And, does anyone recall voting on that change? Hasn't it been accomplished through various forms of skullduggery, including trying to smear those who merely point out that there's a change and it's been involuntary?

Should we add Lysenkoiiissmmm to the list of LibertarianSins?

On a related note, meet your new voters:

submedia.tv/gigante/home_en.htm

Akira MacKenzie | March 24, 2007, 5:26pm | #

They only think (fantasize?) about what imagine sexual practice is like.

Just ask Ted Haggard.

Mr. Steven Crane | March 24, 2007, 7:10pm | #

lonewacko, what's with your UnspacedWords you use so often?

joe | March 24, 2007, 7:31pm | #

SIV,

"There was another "Democratically elected"
politician-back in the early-mid 20th Century,
somewhere in Central Europe......."

Yes, one who, upon taking power, was able to eliminate the democratic process and rule as a dictator thereafter.

Thank you for making my point for me - allowing the democratic process to be subverted is a disaster for our security and interests.

"I mean c'mon joe you pledged patriotic alleigance to the CIA and that is what they DO....at least when they are being effective."

You mean like Iran 1956? Yeah, THAT sure turned out to be smart move.

joe | March 24, 2007, 7:35pm | #

Also, SIV, the CIA engaged in skullduggerly like that when ordered to by their superiors in the White House. I support da troops, whether in uniform or undercover, but that's quite a different thing than supporting every dumbass or corrupt policy dreamed up by the people who give them marching orders.

Guy Montag | March 24, 2007, 8:58pm | #

As pointed out by Eric S., it is the stupidity of Pearce Adams, or his editor, for the Chavez confusion:

He said Venezuelan President Cesar Chavez is “teaching al-Qaeda and people like that, terrorists, how to come across the border, look like Mexicans, act like Mexicans and understand how to talk in this country. They’re coming across just as fast as the Mexicans cross.”

Perhaps he is bucking for a job with Lee Seigel at TNR?

luluinwy | March 25, 2007, 2:49am | #

why can't we just stay the hell home, in our OWN country, and mind our own damn business??? there's not a whole helluva lot of countries that like us anyway so let's leave them to take on their own crap & go on like in the past over here....you know, like, say a mexican wants to come here & do the jobs our own sorry, ill-raised, spoiled-brat children of this generation won't partake of, let them come on in....i am sorry but our own govt. is the problem. let's see...if we go thru the alphabet we could find a word for each letter that our own wonderful country DOES NOT allow in our FREE home...or like the letter D.. "deceit" comes to mind....letter B.... bombing our own people....letter T...trust a government worker???? that's what's insane....i don't even care if it's the damn dog catcher....no no no...

wally the bird | March 25, 2007, 9:59pm | #

So why should we bother celbrating his birthday when he isnt even a american?

joe | March 26, 2007, 11:23am | #

Tell it to General Pulaski, wally.

highnumber | March 26, 2007, 11:33am | #

joe,
Pulaski's been dead for, like, a looong time.