Jesse Walker visits the Take-It-Easy trailer park and discovers they ain't making Jews like Jesus anymore, but they are making candidates like Kinky Friedman.
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Comments to "New at Reason":
Kinky promises to legalize marijuana and set all the convicted marijuana prisoners free. He also promises to legalize casino gambling. I might move to Texas.
GinSlinger | October 6, 2006, 9:43am | #
For those of you who may have missed it, Friedman (I) and Grandma (I) are in the debate tonite, however, Werner (L) will not be.I'm torn over Kinky. First, I had to seek out the Strayhorn petition to put Grandma on the ballot in the hopes of splintering the Republican vote. Then Kinky gets access and appears to draw much of his support from the Democrats. Then there is also the question of what Kinky will do to the Libertarian vote--will he draw enough of the none-of-the-above vote to lose the LP its automatic ballot access in Texas?
Karen | October 6, 2006, 9:48am | #
Two things: 1. Pappy Lee O'Daniel wasn't a bandleader, he owned a flour mill in Ft. Worth. His company sponsored Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys on the radio, and Wills' band played O'Daniel events.2. I'm not so sure Kinky's behavior will cost him anything in here in Austin. While we're certainly much more liberal that any other place in Texas, our city motto is "Keep Austin Weird," which Kinky perfectly symbolizes.
Jesse Walker | October 6, 2006, 9:57am | #
Pappy Lee O'Daniel wasn't a bandleader, he owned a flour mill in Ft. Worth. His company sponsored Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys on the radio, and Wills' band played O'Daniel events.That's like saying "Elvis wasn't a singer, he was a truck driver." After Wills left, O'Daniel kept the band going, and then later he started another group of his own.
Granted, he was pretty much a figurehead -- by all accounts he didn't have much musical talent himself -- but he was, officially, the leader of both bands.
joe | October 6, 2006, 10:11am | #
"The Jews own the world, the Catholics run it, Protestants work it, and the Niggers and Mexicans enjoy it, basically, that's what they've done."- Kinky Friedman
You want to play the "Who's the real racist?" game, Jesse? OK.
joe | October 6, 2006, 10:15am | #
"the smearbund had tried to paint him as a racist, zeroing in on a reference to the "crackheads and thugs" among Houston's Katrina refugees. The problem is that he didn't say that blacks are all crackheads and thugs, nor that crackheads and thugs are all blacks. Indeed, he didn't say anything about blacks at all—it was his critics who dragged race into it."Here's the quote:
"The crackheads and thugs who remain in Houston after Katrina happen to be black; that's fact."
Is there a reason you decided your readers couldn't handle the entire quote? Or why you make a completely innacurate statement about who "dragged race into it?"
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you just took the word of the blogger you linked to instead of doing your research, rather than intentially lying about it.
Research that consisted of typing "Kinky Friedman racist quotes" into Altavista.
thoreau | October 6, 2006, 10:19am | #
joe, you still use Altavista?That's the real revelation here.
Jesse Walker | October 6, 2006, 10:30am | #
Joe: You don't know what you're talking about. Friedman's original quote didn't mention blacks; it just said that "the crackheads and the thugs have decided to stay here." Rep. Sefronia Thompson and others then dragged race into it by declaring that he was attacking blacks. His reply did include that statement that "the crackheads and thugs who remain in Houston after Katrina happen to be black"; it also included the comment that "Crackheads come in all colors of the rainbow."joe | October 6, 2006, 10:35am | #
I apparently know enough to make you backtrack.Don't you think that information would be been relevant to the point when you raised it in your article?
So anyways, would you describe yourself more as owning the world, running it, working it, or enjoying it?
Jesse Walker | October 6, 2006, 10:45am | #
Backtrack? Who backtracked? My article was accurate: The quote people zeroed in on didn't refer to blacks, and it was indeed Friedman's critics who dragged race into the discussion. Your post was inaccurate: The "entire quote" that you cited was (a) not the quote, and (b) not even the "entire" version of the follow-up statement.This is the sort of thing you learn when your research consists of more than typing a phrase into a search engine.
As for the other quote, it's obviously a case of Friedman playing an over-the-top redneck character. The man is Jewish himself. Do you think he believes he owns the world? Come on.
Rich Ard | October 6, 2006, 10:48am | #
Joe, have you read any of the guy's books? He's a comedian, for chrissake.I think that it would be great to see a runoff between Kinky and Tom Robbins.
Mr. F. Le Mur | October 6, 2006, 10:50am | #
You want to play the "Who's the real racist?" game, Jesse? OK.Joe, you've already admitted that your a racist and support the practice of government sponsored racism.
So get off your ridiculous little soapbox.
Jesse Walker | October 6, 2006, 10:51am | #
Oh, and about this:Don't you think that information would be been relevant to the point when you raised it in your article?
...the answer is No, I don't. If I were writing a detailed account of the controversy over Friedman's alleged racism, I would have gotten into that stuff, along with a bunch of other comments and lyrics dating back to the beginning of his career, to make it clear that Friedman has a long history of Sarah Silverman-style envelope-pushing and that it takes a tin ear or an out-of-context quote to mistake that for actual racism. Then again, if I were writing a detailed account of the controversy, I would have written the article a couple weeks ago. That just isn't the focus of this piece.
joe | October 6, 2006, 10:56am | #
"Backtrack? Who backtracked?"You went from a tightly-cropped quote to the complete explaination you should have provided from the beginning.
"As for the other quote, it's obviously a case of Friedman playing an over-the-top redneck character."'
The hardy-har treatment of racism gives cover to more dangerous people. It take the shock out of racist statements, and brings people who should be treated as a despised fringe closer to the acceptable mainstream.
No, I don't think Friedman is racist, just a smartass. But I think he provides bad leadership by picking at scabs that should left alone.
Jesse Walker | October 6, 2006, 11:02am | #
You went from a tightly-cropped quote to the complete explaination you should have provided from the beginning.That's not a backtrack, it's a footnote.
joe | October 6, 2006, 11:10am | #
Oh, yes, Lemur, I'm a terrible racist for - wait for it - supporting programs to desegregate colleges. If it weren't for terrible, affirmative action-supporting racists like me, we could go back to having the student bodies you prefer, with only a tiny fraction of racial minorities therein.Congratulations, you got me to admit the full extent of my pro-integration, racist determination not to pretend that there is no racism. Perhaps, if were as anti-racist as yourself, I'd share your determination that absolutely nothing be done about racial injustice.
Mr. F. Le Mur | October 6, 2006, 11:13am | #
It take the shock out of racist statements, and brings people who should be treated as a despised fringe closer to the acceptable mainstream.Man, that *is* amusing. Statements, huh?
Joe, I quite literally despise you because of your support for racist *practices*.
APL | October 6, 2006, 11:13am | #
The hardy-har treatment of racism gives cover to more dangerous people.So what do you think of Carlos Mencia? As far as I'm concerned, it's about time we stopped treating race like a sacred cow.
Mr. F. Le Mur | October 6, 2006, 11:22am | #
Perhaps, if were as anti-racist as yourself, I'd share your determination that absolutely nothing be done about racial injustice.Let's translate from Newspeak into English: "Racism is bad when others do it. Racism is good when I do it."
D.A. Ridgely | October 6, 2006, 11:32am | #
I'm a terrible racist for - wait for it - supporting programs to desegregate colleges. If it weren't for terrible, affirmative action-supporting racists like me, we could go back to having the student bodies you prefer, with only a tiny fraction of racial minorities therein.Golly, there are still segregated colleges? Excepting, that is, Historically Black schools that have "only a tiny fraction of racial [non-]minorities therein"?
Keep up the good work, joe. Jim Crow must die!
Ruthless | October 6, 2006, 11:33am | #
With regard to racism, Walter Williams had an excellent series of columns recently discussing the difference between discrimination and prejudice.It can be a fine line. So what?
The main thing is that Jesse hit all the right nails on the heads with this column.
Go Kinky!
joe | October 6, 2006, 11:41am | #
APL,"So what do you think of Carlos Mencia?"
If he runs for office, he's got some 'splainin to do. Not that there's anything wrong with his jokes (except that so many of them suck), but I would want to see him make it clear that he is aware that there is actual, non-funny racism out there, and that he can deal seriously with the subject. There are people who refer to all black peole as "crackheads and thugs," and the fact that Friedman doesn't seem terribly interested in acknowledging this doesn't give me warm fuzzies about his ability to handle actual racism or racially-charged issues if he's put in a leaership role.
Lemur, I don't care. You plainly don't understand the issues, the interest in trying, or have the firepower to discuss them in a meaningful way. Despise away, it's what you're good at. Buh bye.
joe | October 6, 2006, 11:46am | #
DA,"Golly, there are still segregated colleges?" Not many - affirmative action has been just as successful at rooting out de facto segregation as the Civil Rights Act was at rooting out de jure segregation. That's why virtually all historically black colleges have affirmative action programs and recruitment programs to attract white people. Or didn't you know that?
Anyway, it's good to see that your opposition to racial segregation extends all the way to the letter of the law, and then stops. Some of us actually value diversity, and think it is a good thing when institutions that were all-white change. Apparently, we're known as "racists."
Rodney King | October 6, 2006, 11:46am | #
People, people -- Kinky promises to legalize marijuana -- can't we all get a bong?Apostate Jew | October 6, 2006, 11:54am | #
Now we're going to need racial joke licenses (and the requisite planners) to go along with our sex and realtionship licenses (and, of course, plannners).An Office of Correct Understanding of the Issues will also be required.
Two jewesses walk into a mikvah and the first one says ...
rob | October 6, 2006, 12:06pm | #
joe - Stop being such a tool. Altavista for crying out loud??? Yeah, affirmative action is reverse discrimination. No, it doesn't cause enough damage to really matter - but it is a significant drain on administrative resources."If he runs for office, he's got some 'splainin to do." - joe
Dude, THAT was racist. Yeah, mocking people by referring to them like you're Desi Arnaz is racist - even if they make comments you see as racist.
You think that it's OK for you to make racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic statements, but you want to call out Friedman for saying something he didn't actually say?
Before you ask when and where, those comments were 03:40 PM and 06:47 PM on September 15, 2006
here's the link:
http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2006/09/hooray_for_ddt.shtml
Remember your sermon about how people who violate what they advocate should not try to preach about it? You're a real piece of work, friend. At least you have learned to extend your partisan blinders to include anything you see in the mirror.
D.A. Ridgely | October 6, 2006, 12:08pm | #
Yes, joe, I knew that. Knew how effective they have been, too. So "de facto" segregation, unaided, created or sustained by pretextual state action, is a bad thing? Why? What is, exactly, the value of diversity at all times and in all places? Shouldn't we force desegregation of churches and other places of worship, not only of course on racial lines but, what the hell, diversity of belief, too? Why, since I know you're going to say that's idiotic, not? What overriding principle is at stake for you there but not, say, at a private college? How about marriage? Should we permit children to be exposed to the apparently damaging effects of same-race parents? I say nay, nay! Join me, joe! Fight the power!And by the way, I didn't call you a racist. But if you're going to, well, backtrack -- to use a recently invoked concept -- from unqualified segregation to "de facto" segregation, maybe your standing to edit Mr. Walker's copy isn't as solid as you imagined.
Nice threadjack. I'd like to see Kinky win for no other reason than he might say stuff that would offend people, and he wouldn't even give a shit about it. We need more lovable excentric cranks in office, not fewer.
joe | October 6, 2006, 1:31pm | #
LOL, here's the exchange that so upsets rob, in which I make "racist and homophobic statements."From a thread about the use of DDT in Africa:
"Jesus Christ joe, how do you sleep at night.
Comment by: Warren at September 15, 2006 06:37 PM
---
Well, Warren, the bodies of the Africans I kill on a daily basis helps to keep my cave warm. Could you be little more dramatic, nancy?"
Yes, really. That's what he's talking about. That's what he went back through the archives to find, to demonstrate my racism and homophobia.
Again, LOL.
joe | October 6, 2006, 1:37pm | #
LOL! Here is the exchance rob is pointing to to demonstrate my racism and homophobia:"Jesus Christ joe, how do you sleep at night.
Comment by: Warren at September 15, 2006 06:37 PM
---
Well, Warren, the bodies of the Africans I kill on a daily basis helps to keep my cave warm. Could you be little more dramatic, nancy?"
Yes, really. That's it.
And here's the proof of my anti-semitism:
(Bailey referred in his post to orthodox environmentalism):
"Perhaps there is colony of Orthodox Envrionmentalists that live near Ron Bailey, walking around with black hats and long forelocks, protesting the use of DDT for household spraying in Africa. Personally, I haven't seen any."
Yes. Really. I made a pun about the word "orthodox."
You'll forgive me, rob, if I don't spend too many sleepless nights worrying about the fact that you considered my use of the famous quote from "I Love Lucy" to be racist.
Jesse Walker | October 6, 2006, 1:38pm | #
In order to get the point across to Joe, Rob, you should have waited until he runs for office 26 years from now, then fanned a media controversy by yanking the quote out of context: "Joe Boyle once 'joked' that 'the bodies of the Africans I kill on a daily basis helps to keep my cave warm,' then used the antigay slur 'nancy.' If he really wants to represent Massachussetts, this man has some 'splainin to do."rob | October 6, 2006, 1:43pm | #
Nope. First you made a racist comment on this thread: "If he runs for office, he's got some 'splainin to do."It reminded me of the last time someone took him to task for anti-Semitism and homophobia by kevrob (who is not me):
"Could you be little more dramatic, nancy?"
Comment by: joe at September 15, 2006 06:47 PM
"Perhaps there is colony of Orthodox Envrionmentalists that live near Ron Bailey, walking around with black hats and long forelocks, protesting the use of DDT for household spraying in Africa. Personally, I haven't seen any."
Comment by: joe at September 15, 2006 03:40 PM
kevrob called him out on it, despite joe's weak attempt to re-define his comments as "A pun (sic) on the tern 'orthodox' is not anti-semitism, and calling someone 'nancy' is not homophobia." - joe
"Referring to forelocks and black hats surely conjures up images of the Hasidim to me. If I were to create a caricature of enviro-orthodox wear, I would have gone with Birkenstocks and hempen trousers, and left the Jews out of it.
As for 'nancy,' what could that be except the short form of 'nancy boy'? Face it, my statist 'friend,' by the rules of our modern PC Police, you've been busted. Schedule yourself for that Maoist reeducation known as 'sensitivity training' right away, or it will go hard on you! :)"
Comment by: kevrob at September 16, 2006 03:43 PM
So joe, it looks like that "sensitivity training" didn't stick... But the racist and homophobic bits seem to be showing through more often.
You should pull a Mel Gibson, apologize, and put yourself into a treatment center.
Jesse - Oh, the irony! Thanks for making me spit water on my keyboard. Heh... When someone like joe has no sense of humor, and believes his views should be enshrined as the law of the land, it practically screams out "hoist me with my own petard!" doesn't it?
rob | October 6, 2006, 2:02pm | #
Hey, joe, the only person allowed to make fun of hispanic accents - like Carlos Mencia and Desi Arnaz - are their wives:"Also worth noting is the firm stance Arnaz and Ball took as to 'basic good taste,' avoiding racial or ethnic jokes, poking fun at the handicapped, and the like. Arnaz recalled that the only exception consisted of making fun of Ricky Ricardo's accent?and noted that even these jokes worked only when Lucy, as his wife, did the mimicking. 'When Fred and Ethel made fun of Ricky's accent, they didn't get a laugh. Interesting, isn't it?'"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desi_Arnaz
Are you still so blind you can't see the ugliness of what you have said? That's sad, man. The first step to successfully completing "sensitivity training" rehab is to admit you have a problem...
rob | October 6, 2006, 2:16pm | #
Actually, joe, what would your response be regarding people who choose to segregate themselves based on race, creed, color, sexual orientation or preference regarding reading material or level of technology?Do you think those people have the right to do so? If not, what exactly do you have against the Amish?
I'm all for keeping the gov't from segregating people, but I'm also for keeping the gov't from forcing people together. Gov't cannot change people's hearts...
joe | October 6, 2006, 2:59pm | #
rob,I have no interest in attempting a serious conversation about racial issues with you, because your irresponsible, selective hysteria makes doing so a waste of time.
BTW, when you laid my crimes, you forgot one: yesterday, I called you a partisan Republican, then began my next sentence with, "You people..." something something something about Bill Clinton.
To which you responded, "Is that a racial comment, joe?"
Could you be a little more hysterical, Betty-Anne?
Stevo Darkly | October 6, 2006, 3:28pm | #
"The Jews own the world, the Catholics run it, Protestants work it, and the Niggers and Mexicans enjoy it, basically, that's what they've done."- Kinky Friedman
I just wanted to point out that most African-Americans are also Protestants, and most Mexicans are also Catholics, although a growing number of them are evangelical Protestants.
Actually, I read somewhere that Episcopalians actually run the world -- when it comes to being in the top executive suite of the Fortune 500, there is an Epsicopalian Ceiling that is less porous than the Glass Ceiling. In other words, its more likely for women vs. men to end up in top corporate management than it is for for non-Episcopalians vs. Episcopalians. (But you have to be an Episcopalian woman, I take it.)
And no, I don't have a link. It could be B.S. But interesting if true.
rob | October 6, 2006, 4:13pm | #
"I have no interest in attempting a serious conversation about racial issues with you, because your irresponsible, selective hysteria makes doing so a waste of time."Translation: No way am I admitting to thinking or writing the kind of crap we all know I really think, even though everyone can read what I wrote.
"BTW, when you laid my crimes, you forgot one: yesterday, I called you a partisan Republican, then began my next sentence with, 'You people...' something something something about Bill Clinton."
Translation: If I keep talking maybe people will forget what I wrote.
"To which you responded, 'Is that a racial comment, joe?'"
Translation: I denied that it was, but we all know that with the way I pop off about Mexicans, Jews and homosexuals, it could have been. This ONE time, though, I actually WAS referring to everyone to the right of Che Guevara as "you people."
"Could you be a little more hysterical, Betty-Anne?"
Translation: If I substitue some other name, maybe people won't notice that when I used the term "nancy" it was 1) lower-case and 2) a transparent reference to the derogatory "nancy boy" insult used against homosexuals. Next up, I'll re-define what "is" really is.
joe, by the way, I love the BS you're slinging at 2:02 p.m. It makes you sound like an enlightened college professor, rather than your sheet wearing alter ego. It's like you learned the ivory tower definitions but missed the part about not insulting people based on their race, creed or sexual preference.
joe | October 6, 2006, 4:36pm | #
Sheet wearing?Thank you for that. While almost everybody realized before now that you're a loone, there might have still been a fraction of a percent who found your shtick convincing.
So I owe you one.
joe | October 6, 2006, 4:46pm | #
"Translation:..." is what you do when you realize that nobody with a rudimentary grasp of the language is going to take away the meaning you wish to read into my words. Been there, done that, it's really transparent."the kind of crap we all know I really think,"
"I denied that it was, but we all know that with the way I pop off about Mexicans, Jews and homosexuals, it could have been." Uh huh. We all know, huh?. OK, rob, you're really speaking for everyone here. No way you're a solitary lunatic whose wishful-thinking interpretations look like desperate reaching to normal people.
"...your sheet wearing alter ego." Thank you for that. I'm pretty certain that the vast majority of people reading this have realized how deluded you are, but just in case there is a fraction of a percent that still find your shtick convincing, calling me a Knight of the Ku Klux Klan was a good way to disabuse them.
So I owe you one, penelope.
thoreau | October 7, 2006, 11:06am | #
joe, you have to admit that, in spite of everything that he's said, Kinky Friedman would hardly be the worst governor in Texas history.Like that draft dodging coke head they had a while back. What ever happened to him?
Neu Mejican | October 7, 2006, 2:02pm | #
My two cents on the "joe as racist" meme...Joe's statements prove he isn't funny.
Rob's statements prove he likes to piss off joe, and watch the fireworks.
MUTT | October 7, 2006, 5:02pm | #
I read the aricle. I read all the comments.More people than me need to get a life.
Joe, Ive read your posts with interest over the past few months. I didnt say agreement, I said interest.
"Progressives" are thier own worst enemy. I say that having been a "nuts and bolts" type organizer on the Left for, well, decades. Til I resigned, around 91 or so.
Because of doctrinaire, humourless, Statist, hostile to non "prog " regular folks....like you, I guess.
You arent helping The Cause here, on this one. Kinky F is who he is. And thats not Simon LeGree.
Jeez.
rob | October 8, 2006, 1:17am | #
Damn it, Neu Mejican, it was going so well 'til you pointed out that my real goal is to poke joe with a stick and watch the hornets swarm. It's just a bit too easy to wind him up. I should be ashamed, I suppose...For the record, joe, I don't think you're a racist homophobe. I think that you ARE the sort of guy who would probably say something cluelessly offensive in front of my relatives.
But you really mean well, I suppose, and your heart is in the right place. Like I said, I think you understand the ivory tower version, just not the "don't be offensive" to the people you're so interested in "helping."
Good thing for the people you think are so oppressed that they're not waiting around for you in your starring role as the "Great White Hope."
Hope you're having a better weekend than you did on this thread.
joe | October 8, 2006, 5:07pm | #
"For the record, joe, I don't think you're a racist homophobe. I think that you ARE the sort of guy who would probably say something cluelessly offensive in front of my relatives."That's really never been my problem, rob. In fact, I've often been called out for being too sensitive to perceived prejudice - part of the PC Police, as it were.
Which really says something about how far over the horizon you are.
joe | October 8, 2006, 7:39pm | #
...or rather, would be, if you were being serious, rather than just trolling."...and the niggers and Mexicans enjoy it" isn't worth a comment, but "he's got some 'splainin to do" meand I have a "robe-wearing alter ego."
Piss off, troll.
Ruthless | October 8, 2006, 7:56pm | #
"Actually, I read somewhere that Episcopalians actually run the world"Stevo Darkly,
The definition of a parasite is something eating on us whilst we are unaware.
As tempting as it is to run the world... nah.
I'll stick to that "old time religion": atheism.
It has bountifully blessed my mangy posterior. Not.
(Well... psychically...)
rob | October 8, 2006, 9:14pm | #
joe,You are so humorless you can't even admit when you've screwed up in public. You're like the puppy crapping on the rug - even when you get a pass on it the crap still stinks and you don't realize you did anything wrong.
Hey, at least I'm relaxed enough to cut you some slack - even after you crapped in public. But I do understand that you still don't realize that you actually did anything offensive.
The fact that watching you get fired up in your humorless self-righteous fashion does give me a lugh, true, but I'd be more impressed if you were capable of a little self-reflection if not Marxist self-criticism.
Dude, you're just sad. Like I said, "I don't think you're a racist homophobe. I think that you ARE the sort of guy who would probably say something cluelessly offensive in front of my relatives.
But you really mean well, I suppose, and your heart is in the right place. Like I said, I think you understand the ivory tower version, just not the 'don't be offensive' to the people you're so interested in 'helping.'"
So no, you're not literally a sheet-wearing racist. You're just a guy who is truly so clueless that you don't realize when you're being offensive.
It's actually pretty common among liberal true-believers that nothing they say can be considered racist because they "understand the plight" of other races so well. Why would you be able to recognize your own offensive comments? You're a true believer and I'm sure some of your best friends are minorities.
rob | October 8, 2006, 9:41pm | #
Bottom line: There are plenty of ostensibly well-meaning conservatives who whine "reverse discrimination" about affirmative action and can't see that it makes them look like crazy racists. They truly believe that having a technical point overhwelms the bigger issues involved.joe is the mirror image of that. joe can't understand that mocking Hispanics with a Desi Arnaz impression, calling people names using derogatory homosexual terms, and making jokes that use Jewish stereotypes makes him look like a crazy racist. joe truly believes that he's the enlightened one, and that being right about the bigger issue excuses him of being offensive on the technical point.