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The Schiavo Case: Bearing False Witness

My take on the Terri Schiavo case.

I respect differing opinions on the issue of "sanctity of life" vs. "quality of life." I understand that there are legitimate concerns about ending the life of a profoundly disabled person on a third party's decision.

But as I said in the column, the level of hysteria, hate, and lies around this issue -- coming from the "pro-life" side -- is revolting.

The new material I've come across since writing the column confirms that opinion.

There is, for instance, this National Review article about Terri Schiavo's medical prognosis -- written by Rev. Robert Johansen, who is not a physician -- which claims that Schiavo never had an MRI. Well, it seems that she did have one in 1990 several month after her collapse, according to a report by one of the expert witnesses and to excerpts from Schiavo's medical records posted at a conservative pro-life website that strongly supports keeping Schiavo alive. ("7/24/1990 -- MRI Report Dr. Pinkston. profound atrophy w/ very atrophic appearing cortex. Mild white matter disease, anoxic/hypoxic injury.") The Rev. Johansen's claim that a leading expert witness for Michael Schiavo, Dr. Ronald Cranford, had earlier misdiagnosed a minimally conscious patient as being in a persistent vegetative state appears to be false as well.

There is also the fact that Dr. William Hammesfahr, the only one of the eight neurologists to examine Schiavo who asserted that she was not in a persistent vegetative state, has been touted (by Fox News' Sean Hannity, among others) as an outstanding physician who has been nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine. In fact, his "nomination" consists of a letter from his Congressman to the Nobel Committee stating that he deserves to be nominated for the "Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine" (the Committee was no doubt impressed). Dr. Hammesfahr is the practitioner of a questionable method of treatment for stroke survivors that is generally not recognized in the medical profession (in plain English, he may be a quack); he has been disciplined by the Florida Medical Board and has never published in legitimate peer-reviewed journals.

There is plenty to be said about the junk science in this case -- for instance, the 17 affidavits submitted in support of the parents' claim that Schiavo may not be vegetative by medical experts (who never examined Schiavo and based their conclusions on viewing short video clips). Interestingly, the affidavits have been removed from the Terrisfight.org site, but an extensive and persuasive critique of them can be found here. In the hysterical atmosphere that reigns among the "pro-Terri" blogs, any dubious claim spread like wildfire. A medical blog called CodeBlueBlog claims that the image of Schiavo's brain scan shows far less deterioration than most exerts have asserted, and that her bone scan shows signs of physical abuse. I haven't been able to find out much about the blogger, apparently a Florida-based radiologist named Dr. Thomas Boyle; I do know, however, that not long ago, he also claimed that the altered appearance of Ukrainian presidential candidate Victor Yushchenko was caused not by (later confirmed) poisoning with dioxin but by a combination of excessive drinking and rosacea covered with makeup. He has also claimed, on the basis of recent published photos of Bill Clinton after heart surgery, that the former President actually has cancer or AIDS. CodeBlueBlog sports a "2004 Medical Weblogs Awards: Best Clinical Sciences Weblog" blurb, but the awards seem to be decided by online votes from fewer than 200 readers on another medical site.

(By the way, it's also worth noting that according to the GAL report, at the 2000 trial over Terri Schiavo's guardianship her parents did not dispute that she was indeed in a persistent vegetative state.)

Worse yet, however, have been the outright slanders directed at Terri Schiavo's husband Michael. Schiavo's "supporters" have circulated an affidavit by a nurse who cared for Terri Schiavo for several months in 1995-96. Iyers claims that Michael was abusive toward his incapacitated wife and said things like "When is that bitch gonna die"; she also claims that her voluminous notes indicating that Terri was conscious, responsive, and trying to communicate were regularly deleted from Terri's charts, and that another nurse at the convalescent center who was on friendly terms with Michael Schiavo may have been killing patients. (No record exists of her ever making a police report, and she did not come forward with her story until 2003.) Not surprisingly, the much-maligned Judge Greer dismissed this bizarre statement as "not credible," which has not kept Iyer from being interviewed on CNN and Fox. Terri Schiavo's family and friends have appeared before the cameras as well to spout wild charges that Michael may have been an abuser and may have murdered Terri (odd how this never came up until the dispute over the feeding tube began).

I have to say that when I first started paying attention to this case I thought, like many other people, that there was something shady about Michael Schiavo and that, if nothing else, the guy was a creep. The more I've learned about the details, the more I've been sympathetic to this man. The two guardian ad litem reports are generally very positive about his role in caring for his stricken wife in the early years of her condition (even the first report, which concluded that Michael had too much of a financial conflict of interest to be a reliable witness to Terri's expressed desire not to be kept alive; more on that later). The worst that can be said about him, perhaps, is that when he testified at the malpractice trial on his claim for damages for the loss of his wife's consortium and her medical expenses, he wasn't entirely forthcoming about the fact that he had pretty much given up on prospects of viable treatment for Terri. It is worth noting, however, that in 1998 he offered to donate all of her estate (primarily the money left from the $750,000 portion of the award allocated to her medical care) to charity if the Schindlers withdrew their objections to the termination of artificial feeding and hydration for Terri. (Rather bafflingly, the terrisfight.org site, which reproduces this letter, lists as one of the "myths" about Terri the notion that "Michael Schiavo volunteered to donate the balance of the inheritance to charity." And why, pray, is it a myth? Because he only made this offer on the condition that "Terri's parents would agree to her death by starvation." The site also claims that "the proposal came after a court-appointed Guardian Ad Litem cited Schiavo's conflict of interest since he stood to inherit the balance of Terri's medical fund upon her death." But the letter from Michael Schiavo's attorney to the Schindlers' attorney is dated October 21, 1988, and the GAL report is dated December 29, 1988.)

Interesting, by the way, how the "pro-lifers" simultaneously charge that Michael just wants to get rid of Terri because she's a burden to him, and scream, "Why doesn't he just divorce her and let her parents care for her?" Well, if he did see her as nothing more than a burden, it would have been the easiest thing in the world to get a divorce and move on with his life. Maybe he won't divorce her because he does feel responsible for carrying out her wishes, and doesn't want to leave her in the hands of the delusional parents who would have her linger on in her living death. But there are, of course, other explanations. Here's a charming one from Eric Cohen in The Weekly Standard: "And while one would think that divorce was the obvious solution, this was more than Michael Schiavo apparently could bear, since it would require a definitive act of betrayal instead of a supposed demonstration of loyalty to Terri's wishes." (That's right: Michael Schiavo is willing to be vilified as a murderer rather than face the stigma of divorcing his disabled wife.) At American Digest, Gerald Vanderleun suggests that Michael Schiavo wants his wife dead because he wants to sell the book and movie rights. (Of course, it was the Schindlers who turned the case into a public circus, but ... oh, never mind.) This particularly odious sliming is dutifully linked by Michelle Malkin.

I could go on and on (I already have). I apologize for the length of this post, but I'm very angry right now, at the hysteria and the lies, at the collective insanity unfolding on the news. There are people claiming, and barely being challenged by interviewers, that Terri Schiavo is still trying to talk, smiling, and lifting her arms to "dance" in response to music. (If she were conscious and being slowly killed by hunger and thirst, would that be a likely response?) There's the preposterous story by the lawyer who claimed that she elicited the beginning of an "I want to live" from Terri -- which, of course, conveniently happened with no witnesses and no tape recorder, and which this lawyer waited to report for a week after the removal of Terri's feeding tube. For most of the people who are championing this cause, this is not about protecting Terri Schiavo's rights. I heard one of the protesters say on the news, "It's not what Terri would have wanted, it's what God wants." I don't think the religious right is our own homegrown Taliban, but maybe it's about as close to a Taliban as you can have in modern American society. These are people who really do want the state to enforce their vision of "what God wants." In the name of this cause, apparently, it's more than okay to forget that little Ten Commandments thing about bearing false witness.

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Comments to "The Schiavo Case: Bearing False Witness":

Steve M | March 29, 2005, 7:54am | #

Wow. A great post. My wife's family lives about 2 minutes from the hospice, and I drove past it a few times this past weekend. I found the protester flying his Confederate battle flag particularly convincing. Jeez..

PaulP | March 29, 2005, 8:21am | #

Could someone explain this to me: if it is ok to stop feeding her, why not just end it quickly by e.g. overdose of morphine?

Ron Hardin | March 29, 2005, 8:27am | #

Something omitted from every analysis : the MSM news business survives on soap-opera-news junkies, 20% of the population and 40% of women. Anything that they can relate to (ie. pretty white woman) is news, and there's always something every night. This audience supports the news biz. The news biz would like a larger audience, but there isn't one except for rare one-off big stories, which isn't enough to pay the bills.

This soap opera audience combines with the sanctity-of-life audience in this case, so the legs of the story show up in odd places all over. You can't tune it out any longer, if you're a typical TV news non-watcher.

Anyway it's an audience problem, not a news biz problem, and that soap opera audienec needs ridicule. That may kill the news biz, of course, but at least the nation's news won't any longer be selected for morons.

I bet you can't even imagine an overweight black woman producing any interest at all in the same situation. There's not enough people to relate to overweight black women to interest the soap opera news biz. What about sanctity of life? It doesn't matter in this case. The audience is everything.

Drew | March 29, 2005, 8:29am | #

Great post. These people infuriate me as well and I've asked some of the same questions. Anyone who believes that life must be preserved in every case, even against a person's own will, is one sick SOB and is completely lacking in the compassion and love that Jesus tried to teach. These people are christians in name only.

James | March 29, 2005, 8:35am | #

I don't recall "terri to live" as being one of the verses on any of the What God Wants songs off Amused to Death. Anyway, this near former Republican can't take it anymore either. The goddamned politicians should have thought a minute before tossing federalism out the window in support of religious zealots. I would support impeachment procedings for everyone involved in passing the save Terri law.

My days of defending Republicans of faith from my abortion loving sisters is over. I've been a damn fool to think the fundamentalists would want to preserve the constitution for their own good, apparently they are too stupid to realize the protections they recieve from it. Goddamn this whole fucking mess, and may the Shindlers, Randall Terry, Sean Hannity, and even my beloved elRushbo, all disappear from the airwaves forever.

Randy | March 29, 2005, 8:38am | #

Two words: FUCKING A.

tom | March 29, 2005, 8:45am | #

_You_ are the one that sounds hysterical. Your anti-religious bigotry does noone any good. Calm down and take your Prozac.

db | March 29, 2005, 8:50am | #

I find this whole case distressing and distasteful. This is the first (and hopefully last) time I will comment on it.

Five years ago, my family and I had to decide to pull the plug on my Dad's life support, who was struck down very suddenly by a burst aneurysm in the brain. He was considerably worse off than Schiavo, requiring a respirator to live, but the doctors said they could keep the body alive more or less indefinitely. In fact they did keep it alive, several days after he was declared brain-dead, so that his organs could be donated to several donors (12, if I remember correctly).

I realize that Schiavo is not considered clinically brain-dead. However, I feel, as I did in my father's case, that the scientific and medical evidence are sufficient to establish that her consciousness can no longer be regained. Terry Schiavo is no more.

Reading about this Schiavo case brings back the memory of that very long day and stretches it out. How the Schindlers can live with throwing their daughter's situation into the public spotlight, I will never understand. Ours was a private decision. I wish that the Schindlers would have kept their situation private as well, rather than appealing to the authorities in their futile and deluded quest to keep their daughter 'alive.'

tom is a retard | March 29, 2005, 8:50am | #

Anti-religious? Because she pointed out every bit of hypocritical bullshit about the rights arguments in this case? Your a fucking idiot

chthus | March 29, 2005, 8:53am | #

Not to nitpick, but I think the first point about the MRI is an issue worth exploring a bit more as the courts fucked up here more than anywhere else.

While she had an MRI, along with CAT scans, these are both static imaging processings. What the good Rev likely meant, and what many people mix up, is an fMRI, or functional MRI. This, along with PET scans are not static tests but show evidence of functionality. The courts sought to have an fMRI done, but it didn't happen when the two sides couldn't agree on what the results would have indicated. The courts should have ordered it anyway, and then much of the current debate would have been stemmed.

I don't bring this up to try and defend the right to lifers entire argument as I find their stance to be a combo of sick, silly and sad. Nonetheless, certain points they've made deserve to be recognized and the common lay mistake of mixing up an MRI and an fMRI doesn't preclude the fact this all would have been easier had the courts ordered some sort of functional imaging in this type of case.

Dave Straub | March 29, 2005, 8:58am | #

Fantastic post, Cathy. No longer or shorter than it needed to be.

Julian Sanchez | March 29, 2005, 9:00am | #

If you can tell that the relevant tissue is just not there on a CAT or MRI, what valuable information is the fMRI expected to provide? That nothing much is happening in the non-existent tissue?

chthus | March 29, 2005, 9:07am | #

Julian,

Obviously, where there's no tissue, there's no functionality. But while there's a lot of tissue gone, there's still some there (I'm talking cortical, beyond the brain stem; a bit of frontal and some left temporal if I recall correctly). Seeing levels of functioning in this remaining tissue would have been more definitive evidence of Terri, no-Terri. This would shed more light on the situation than static pictures.

Bob | March 29, 2005, 9:08am | #

As an atheist, I'm very uncomfortable with giving up on life in any case. No matter how hopeless, life means there's some (admittedly extremely small) amount of hope. Oblivion offers nothing.
I haven't felt this conflicted on a news story in many years.

James | March 29, 2005, 9:25am | #

Bob, Although oblivion doesn't sound too good, neither does usurping the resourses my kids could use to be happy. I'm thinking thirty days of unresponsiveness, then pull the plug.

Bonar Law | March 29, 2005, 9:30am | #

Once again there's the tacit assumption that all of the pro-feeding side are activists on behalf of traditionalist Christianity.

Here's a quote from a column by the atheist journalist Nat Hentoff, who is pro-feeding:

"The fundamental issue in Terri's case is disability rights — not the right to die. Throughout all the extensive media coverage of the case, there has been only slight mention — usually none at all — that nearly every major disability rights organization has filed legal briefs to prevent what they and I regard as judicial murder. The protests are not only from pro-lifers and the Christian Right."

Jon H | March 29, 2005, 9:36am | #

chthus, she's had plenty of EEGs, all showing little or no cortical activity. If you've got that, you don't need an fMRI.

Twba | March 29, 2005, 9:42am | #

You can't tune it out any longer, if you're a typical TV news non-watcher.

I have tuned it out. Let me know when it is safe to turn on my telly.

Mort Kondracke has written a decent column on the Schiavo situation. He lost his wife after her mind went. I know where he is coming from. Many years ago, I watched my grandfather succumb to a terrible disease. There comes a time when technology only increases the duration of suffering. I think Terri's mind is too far gone to suffer, but her family and friends have suffered needlessly.

Jon H | March 29, 2005, 9:43am | #

Another slander on Mr. Schiavo is that he wants her dead so that he can marry his girlfriend in the Catholic church, which somehow wouldn't be possible if he divorced.

Unfortunately for that theory, his girlfriend is divorced, making Schiavo's divorce moot.

Then there's the "he wants her cremated so that he can hide the evidence of his abuse", which has been neatly done away with by requesting an autopsy before cremation.

As far as the pro-life thing in general, one thing that gets me is the idea that because life is "precious", it should be greedily clung to. Isn't part of the practice of charity the idea of relinquishing that which is precious?

The idea that life is precious, and therefore should be maintained at all cost seems like kind of a materialistic point of view.

Henry | March 29, 2005, 9:44am | #

Holy smokes, Cathy--you're beautiful when your angry.

Seamus | March 29, 2005, 9:54am | #

"Could someone explain this to me: if it is ok to stop feeding her, why not just end it quickly by e.g. overdose of morphine?"

As Prof. Robert George points out on NRO's The Corner (http://www.nationalreview.com/thecorner/05_03_27_corner-archive.asp#059392), that's exactly the next step the pro-death forces will seek to take. They just didn't think they could get away with it this time. But next time, the Schiavo precedent will make it that much easier to move on to active euthanasia.

Warren | March 29, 2005, 10:03am | #

Can we please limit posts to 500 words? Pleeeeeeease.

speedwell | March 29, 2005, 10:08am | #

Seamus, I fervently hope that they do so. My medical directive instructs my doctors to euthanize ME in the event nothing more can be done to bring me back to some level of functioning. (My number-one fear is of being trapped, at any level of consciousness, in a damaged body that can't communicate.) Even if the laws don't allow them to follow my wishes (yet), the very vehemence of my stance will hopefully motivate them to stop fighting over my near-corpse and get on with things already.

Number 6 | March 29, 2005, 10:14am | #

Of course, Seamus. You've uncovered our true motive: death for everyone!

Now that you're on to us, you must be euthanized so you don't interfere with out plans to knock off everyone else.

Henry | March 29, 2005, 10:17am | #

Gee Seamus, that would be terrible--allowing a morphine OD, instead of slow suffering. Those "pro-death" forces are just evil. Let's make them into lampshades or something.

PS: As a Florida resident with a Living Will, and a greatly increased risk of stroke due to a medical condition, I'm am limited to the end choices now available--which do NOT include a morphine OD--precisely because of assholes like you. So, it is very personal, and from the heart, when I say "Go fuck yourself".

Jon H | March 29, 2005, 10:18am | #

Apparently the pro-veg people think that, if you disagree with them and want to end your life instead of lingering in un-death, you should be subjected to an unpleasant demise.

Maybe Seamus would be happier if Terri Schiavo were not just starving, but were also sitting on a red ant colony.

Mr. Nice Guy | March 29, 2005, 10:24am | #

"I would support impeachment procedings for everyone involved in passing the save Terri law."

That would include every member of the Senate. Daaaaaaaaaaamn..

Recent develoment: both sides want a postmortem done. I wonder if this is going to be like the "Alien Autopsy" special several years ago, with the ambiguous, grainy footage and the bio-suits. That should add very nicely to the calm, intelligent national discussion.

chthus | March 29, 2005, 10:26am | #

Jon H,

One does not preclude the other. EEGs record congregate activity from a point outside the skull. It can show you that cortical activity has dropped by x overall, but has little specificity for localized activity. While an important test, it doesn't tell you everything an fMRI or PET scan would.

It seems that a lot of people have simplified this to black and white, cortex gone autonomic brainstem intact. That's not the case. The cortex is largely gone and the brainstem largely intact, but the damage that has occurred is not of a selective sort that only hurts cortex, or eliminates it completely.

I'm comfortable with letting her die based on the evidence from the neurological tests, electrical recordings and static brain imaging, as are many others. Having functional imaging evidence to go along with that would be beneficial in that it would convince even more people (though certainly not all). It would not be superfluous in that it would give us information that we couldn't get from the other tests, just as the EEG gives us something a neurological exam doesn't give us.

Had the courts ordered this type of functional imaging, it may very well have saved us a considerable amount of the appeals and court costs in this case. Should they order it in similar cases in the future, it would be a good idea. This is all I'm saying, not that an fMRI would magically change the game, simply that it would be best to go with all of the evidence available in these cases.

In a simplistic analogy, the MRI or CAT/CT scan is a photograph, the EEG is an audio recording and the neurological exam is an eye witness. The fMRI or PET scan would be a video recording. In trying the show that something happened, wouldn't it be better to have it than to not? If you are trying to show something didn't happen (purposeful, coordinated cortical activity in this case) isn't it even more so?

blah | March 29, 2005, 10:32am | #

Cathy,

Now thats the kind of rant I love Reason for! Been reading Reason for over 10 years starting in the college library, every issue cover to cover since, although I always hated the double issue where you people took a month off.

If not for the extensive hyperlinks, it would make a great upcoming column, perhaps it can be re-worked? Keep up the good work, Reasonistas.

Jon H | March 29, 2005, 10:35am | #

chthus, the obstacle to having the fMRI done is that it would require the surgical removal of a metal implant from her brain.

That'd most likely damage her brain further, muddying the issue of what the fMRI was showing. If it confirmed a PVS, the pro-life factions would probably claim that the PVS was caused by the surgery removing the implant, that she was in better shape beforehand, and none of that would have been necessary if Michael Schiavo had not insisted on removing the feeding tube.

On the other hand, if the fMRI showed activity, the interpretation of that activity would probably be contentious. Cognition? Or random firing?

We would probably end up in the same exact place we are now, only with more data to interpret in different ways.

David R | March 29, 2005, 10:37am | #

Functional MRI may have some utility in diferentiating PVS from so-called minimally concious states - i.e., states where there is (limited) brain activity in response to stimulus that may not be perceptible through interaction. However, this change in diagnosis would not change Teri's prognosis, nor is there really any meaning to defining conciousness as a white spot on an MRI seperate from the clinical picture. I suspect that the requrest for further studies, like everything else in this case, is a stall tactic.

M1EK | March 29, 2005, 10:41am | #

KERRY WOULD HAVE BEEN WORSE!!!!!!11

chthus | March 29, 2005, 10:46am | #

Jon H,

I was unaware of a metal implant and you are correct that it wouldn't be wise to give the fMRI in such a case (I suppose the MRI Cathy mentions was done before the implant). This wouldn't make a PET scan undoable though.

As for whether functional imaging showed cognition or random firing, that would depend on the tests done. You don't simply record, you record a baseline and then compare it to response to certain stimuli. The location along with the trigger for recorded activity would indicate whether it was indicative of a cognitive response, as opposed to random firing or an autonomic response.

We would likely end up in the same place we are now, but it would be with more and different evidence and a stronger case. Something the courts should probably be striving for.

BillyRay | March 29, 2005, 10:48am | #

But as I said in the column, the level of hysteria, hate, and lies around this issue -- coming from the "pro-life" side -- is revolting.

Not as revolting as the tripe Ms Young spouts off. For example, The Rev. Johansen's claim that a leading expert witness for the parents, Dr. Ronald Cranford, had earlier misdiagnosed a minimally conscious patient as being in a persistent vegetative state appears to be false as well.. Here's what Rev Robert Johansen wrote "But the star medical witness for Michael Schiavo, Dr. Ronald Cranford of the University of Minnesota". Dr. Cranford not only is an expert witness for Michael Schiavo, he's also a big proponet of Euthanasia. Reality check: the good Doctor is just a hired gun. He testifies in euthanasia cases all across the country. Next there's the lawyer. Geeshh, this guy is a real class act. George J. Felos attorney for Michael Schiavo it seems "The Hospice of the Florida Suncoast" have disclosed the facts of Terri Schiavo's case - that from February 13, 1997 until at least April 26, 2001, George J. Felos was listed as the Chairman of the Board of Directors for "The Hospice of The Florida Suncoast" on the non-profit's annual report


Just a terrible hit piece by Ms Young, but then again, that's pretty much all she does.

saw-whet | March 29, 2005, 10:49am | #

Does the NRO's The Corner provoke others into a homicidal rage or is it just me? Just kidding. But it is sad that there are people in this world who want us to conform to their opinions. Why does the American right wing hate our liberty?

Steve M - Confederate flag? Well that's just a symbol of his uber patriotism. God, the stars and bars, shotguns, pickup truck with a Rottweiler chained in the back and a case of Bud. It don't get much more mom and apple pie than that.

chthus | March 29, 2005, 10:50am | #

David R,

You are correct that requests for more testing are largely a stalling tactic now, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't have made the situation less conflicted if functional imaging had been done at some point in the past. Nor does it mean that it shouldn't be done in the future for similar cases to avoid repeats of this situation.

Mr. Nice Guy | March 29, 2005, 10:52am | #

Dude:

Maybe if you would eat more then those little goats that cross over your bridge, you wouldn't be so grouchy..

12 Pack | March 29, 2005, 10:53am | #

Yeah, what he says..

Jon H | March 29, 2005, 11:02am | #

BillyRay, unfortunately for you and the Rev., Cranford was not the only doctor who agreed that Terri is in a persistent vegetative state. The court-appointed doctor agreed. The only ones who did not were the quacks chosen by the Schindlers.

Also, I'm afraid I'm not figuring out how being on the board of directors of a hospice is a bad thing. It's a charity which provides people with a peaceful, supporting place to die - mostly from natural causes.

FGG448 | March 29, 2005, 11:10am | #

I'll agree that it might be alright to pull the plug on someone when they're on life support. But please don't starve them until they're dead. All of this makes me wonder what the future of medicine will offer us. If I didn't provide food and water for my dog - I'd go to jail. What makes it alright to treat a human this way?

Thomas L. Knapp | March 29, 2005, 11:19am | #

"Dr. Hammesfahr is the practitioner of a questionable method of treatment for stroke survivors that is generally not recognized in the medical profession (in plain English, he may be a quack); he has been disciplined by the Florida Medical Board and has never published in legitimate peer-reviewed journals."

This is not the only place I've seen the disingenuous connection of Dr. Hammesfahr's "disciplining" implicitly -- and falsely -- connected to his competence to evaluate Terri Schiavo's state or possible rehabilitative potential.

Hammesfahr was disciplined over a billing dispute, not over his competence as a physician. In the transcript of findings, the board specifically declined to criticize his treatment methods -- although they noted that his methods were outside generally accepted practice, they also noted that many of his patients seemed to improve with the treatments.

There's plenty of room for arguments over the facts, motives, etc. The bottom line question for me is whether there are ANY circumstances, excepting enforcement of a written, witnessed, notarized advance directive, under which the courts should decide whether someone lives or dies. My answer is an unequivocal "no."

Tom Knapp

David | March 29, 2005, 11:26am | #

Speedwell, I hear you, that would be like being buried alive. I get nervous just thinking about it.

clark | March 29, 2005, 11:26am | #

Don't forget Jay Nordlinger, who played the Nazi card in his National Review column.

David | March 29, 2005, 11:32am | #

Since were all going to die eventually, aren't we all part of the "culture of death"?

Charlie (Colorado) | March 29, 2005, 11:32am | #

Nice piece. You can expect to be called a Nazi shortly, just as Don Sensing and a whole lot of other have been. (Including me, in Roger Simon's comments section.)

* | March 29, 2005, 11:34am | #

Here is an audio clip of Dr. William Hammesfahr being mercilessly questioned by Los Angeles radio talk show hosts John and Ken about his "Nobel nomination":
http://www.johnandkenshow.com/audio/files/hammesfahr.wma

He only lasts about 2 minutes before hanging up.

Akira MacKenzie | March 29, 2005, 11:40am | #

"In the name of this cause, apparently, it's more than okay to forget that little Ten Commandments thing about bearing false witness."

...And this surprises you? It's be standard operating proceedure for Christianity since they started claiming their "Messiah" rose from the dead. They even justify lying in the name of their "God." They even gone out of their way to justify it.

Bishop Eusebius, the official propagandist for Constantine, the first Christian Roman emperor, entitles the 32nd Chapter of his 12th Book of Evangelical Preparation:

"How it may be Lawful and Fitting to use Falsehood as a Medicine, and for the Benefit of those who Want to be Deceived."

Here are some other golden nuggets of Christian wisdom on lying:

"For great is the value of deceit, provided it be not introduced with a mischievous intention. In fact action of this kind ought not to be called deceit, but rather a kind of good management, cleverness and skill, capable of finding out ways where resources fail, and making up for the defects of the mind ..."
--John Chrysostom, 5th century bishop of Constantinople.

"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
--Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556), founder of the Jesuits.

To all those fundies out there who think I'm just quoting those "Satanic" Catholics and not "true" Christians, I point you to...:

"What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them."
--Martin Luther

BillyRay | March 29, 2005, 11:45am | #

Clark, I noticed that you've been published in the American Conservative. Well here's what AC head honcho thinks Nazis: Pioneers in medicine

Jon H | March 29, 2005, 11:47am | #

Tom Knapp writes: " The bottom line question for me is whether there are ANY circumstances, excepting enforcement of a written, witnessed, notarized advance directive, under which the courts should decide whether someone lives or dies. My answer is an unequivocal "no.""

Does that also cover when Tom DeLay and his family had their father/husband disconnected in Texas? He had not left a written, witnessed, notarized statement, either. They simply felt he would not want to live that way.

If verbal statements were okay for him, it's okay for Terri Schiavo.

BillyRay | March 29, 2005, 11:50am | #

The esteemed Christopher Manion has an excellent pice today over at LR

Government-ordered euthanasia is coming, sooner than we think All that talk about "living wills" is just camouflage. In our lifetimes, we will see the government proclaim that all "living wills" must be read in only one way: no support for the sustenance of "meaningless" life, the "meaning" to be determined by politically-appointed "independent experts," not family members

dhex | March 29, 2005, 11:51am | #

oh my achey-breaky ray:

"Just a terrible hit piece by Ms Young, but then again, that's pretty much all she does."

surely you must be joking. if nothing else cathy young is known for writing "on the one hand...and then on the other hand..." columns more than anything else.

Muggs | March 29, 2005, 11:58am | #

Any way the Reason Techies can just change it so that whenever Billy Ray posts, it changes his name to Godwin?

Seriously, you've got some kinda Nazi complex, there, brother.

Henry | March 29, 2005, 12:00pm | #

Jon H--

I object to your attempted character assassination on that great Christian American (yeah, I know--generally considered a redundancy nowadays), Tom DeLay. He is throughly consistent:

When it's his family, he wants to decide.
When it's your family, he wants to decide.

What could be more straightforward?

David | March 29, 2005, 12:00pm | #

dhex,

Her arguments would only be valid if her positions agreed 100% with BillyRay's. Anything less is heresy.

Franklin Harris | March 29, 2005, 12:02pm | #

Cathy,

You couldn't hear it, but I literally applauded that post.

dhex | March 29, 2005, 12:03pm | #

none of this has jack squat to do with living wills, advance directives or healthcare proxies. the biggest problem was that there wasn't any document, and clearly contentious parties involved.

mr. manion doth eat hallucinogenic mushrooms too much, methinks.

Mona | March 29, 2005, 12:03pm | #

Cathy Young, that was simply outstanding.

David | March 29, 2005, 12:03pm | #

Government-ordered euthanasia is coming, sooner than we think All that talk about "living wills" is just camouflage. In our lifetimes, we will see the government proclaim that all "living wills" must be read in only one way: no support for the sustenance of "meaningless" life, the "meaning" to be determined by politically-appointed "independent experts," not family members

You mean like the legislation that G.W. Bush signed as Texas governor.

Jon H | March 29, 2005, 12:15pm | #

"You mean like the legislation that G.W. Bush signed as Texas governor."

Well, technically, I think that's more like euthanasia by the Invisible Hand of the market.

How do you arrest an Invisible Hand for murder? You can't. Can't even stop it. It's invisible! Ergo, it's okay.

Henry | March 29, 2005, 12:19pm | #

"Well, technically, I think that's more like euthanasia by the Invisible Hand of the market.

How do you arrest an Invisible Hand for murder? You can't. Can't even stop it. It's invisible! Ergo, it's okay."

Hey, that's the Holy Ghost of capitalism your mocking there, buddy. And as any good Christian can tell you, blaspheming the Holy Ghost is the Unpardonable Sin. And so it is here...Get thee behind me, Satan.

kinda makes ya wonder, don't it? | March 29, 2005, 12:22pm | #

How many death threats have come from each side?

So which side is pro-life?

Henry | March 29, 2005, 12:22pm | #

PS: Goddamn, I have a lot of typos today. Forgive me. I must be more slovenly than usual.

David | March 29, 2005, 12:23pm | #

Adam Smith: Prophet of the CULTURE OF DEATH?

James | March 29, 2005, 12:24pm | #

Akira, A few years ago a priest won an essay contest on Cspan. The question was: When might it be ok to lie?, and I believe his answer had something to do with not telling someone they're dying.

David | March 29, 2005, 12:24pm | #

Henry,
Most days its like I type with my elbows. I get pissed at myself when I read my posts.

BillyRay | March 29, 2005, 12:26pm | #

You mean like the legislation that G.W. Bush signed as Texas governor.

You need to get up to speed. n Texas, Bush's position also had the backing of the Texas Right-to-Life Association

BillyRay | March 29, 2005, 12:28pm | #

PS: Goddamn, I have a lot of typos today. Forgive me. I must be more slovenly than usual.

No worse than that chicken shit movie of yours.

Mark Bahner | March 29, 2005, 12:32pm | #

"Bob, Although oblivion doesn't sound too good, neither does usurping the resourses my kids could use to be happy. I'm thinking thirty days of unresponsiveness, then pull the plug."

Obviously not the same case, but:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/11/earlyshow/main673281.shtml

Jennifer | March 29, 2005, 12:34pm | #

Can you Reason staffers please make a Hit and Run post about some government road-building boondoggle? It's not that I care about the subject one way or another; I just want to read BillyRay's links about how Hitler first conceived of the Autobahn.

Angie | March 29, 2005, 12:43pm | #

I found this article to be very informative, and written in a thoughtful way, and I appreciate that. I have many questions though, that I believe change the direction of my thoughts on this issue.

1. If the body is sustaining itself through breathing, digesting, blood circulation, all organs working properly, then why is a simple inability to swallow, and insertion of a feeding tube, considered "artifical life"? This baffles me. She is living on her own. She just can't swallow. And even this is in question, since no one has been allowed to even attempt to feed her by mouth. And it is, by Florida law, illegal to withhold food or water by mouth from any living person. The very fact that Michael Schiavo will not allow anyone to attempt to feed her is criminal.

2. Why has Michael Schiavo not allowed cameras around Terri? This reeks of suspicion to me.

3. Why, when Michael Schiavo was sitting in front of a judge being awarded money for his "distress" and for Terri's care, did he not mention Terri's "wish" not to be kept on "life support"? Instead, he claims that he will care for Terri for the rest of his life. I find it very interesting that his tune changes so drastically shortly afterward.

4. Why, if death by starvation is so humane and painless, is Terri being administered morphine? Why, if she is at death's door, a living vegetable who wants to die, is it taking 12 days and counting for her to pass away? This is not a weak, crippled waste of a person. This is a determined, capable body who was no where near dying.

5. Why is Michael Schiavo, a man who is outwardly living with another woman and has fathered two children with her, allowed to remain Terri's sole guardian? That seems a tidge ridiculous to me.

6. Why has Michael Schiavo, over the last decade, ordered that Terri's teeth not be brushed, or other standard care? This is neglect, there is just no way around it. Why has she not been allowed outside for fresh air or company, or out of her room even? These are basic needs that any human should have access to.

7. Why has communion been denied her? This ties in with the feeding by mouth issue I imagine. But of course, if she can be fed by mouth and sustained, then she is viable, and many people will soon be guilty of premeditated murder.

These are questions that I do not have satisfactory answers for. We need to be careful when deciding who is worthy or not worthy of life. Especially those whose "wishes" have been made known in such a suspicious, contradictory and inconsistant way.

Angie

BillyRay | March 29, 2005, 12:43pm | #

Jenny, where ya been girl? :>)

Mark Bahner | March 29, 2005, 12:45pm | #

"chthus, the obstacle to having the fMRI done is that it would require the surgical removal of a metal implant from her brain."

According to CodeBlueBlog, the implant only needs to be removed if it's magnetic. And according to a commenter on that blog, it's platinum.

wot was yer point agin? | March 29, 2005, 12:46pm | #

BillyRay @ 12:26 PM

From your linked article.

"Bioethicists familiar with the Texas law said yesterday that if the Schiavo case had occurred in Texas, her husband would be the legal decision-maker and, because he and her doctors agreed that she had no hope of recovery, her feeding tube would be disconnected."(emphasis added)

NB: in Texas, her husband would be the legal decision-maker

Mona | March 29, 2005, 12:46pm | #

Among the many bizarre things in this national circus, is the vitriol from the religious right directed at Judge George Greer. The man is a conservative Republican and Bible-believing Southern Baptist. Until a few weeks ago, he was an active and contributing member of Clearwater's Calvary Baptist Church; he was recently disinvited to remain a member by the pastor who disapproves of Judge Greer's holdings in l'affaire Schiavo.

Because of death threats, Judge Greer, who is 63 and legally blind (and thus unable to drive), is accompanied at all times by two armed sheriff's deputies. This "lawless" and "murderous" judge was reelected to the bench last year by the conservative and religious citizenry of Pinellas Co., Florida-- by a margin of 65%, and even tho the Schiavo brouhaha was the main issue in the campaign.

The Wine Commonsewer | March 29, 2005, 12:47pm | #

Like 1950's John Birchers Cathy (et al) is scared to death of finding a Christian under the bed.

Get a grip, there were a hundred people demonstrating. Oh yeah, and Moxie was pissed.

And there were some of us who have no problem with pulling the plug who just don't like the way this whole thing smells.

I'd also like to point out that Mike got a million five because the doctors at the malpractice trial claimed that Terri could be rehabbed. If that wasn't true why didn't he give the money back? I mean he's an ethics guy right?

Of course, he shouldn't have gotten jack shit to start with because Terri's bulimia caused the seizure and the brain damage. It was not caused by the hospital/doctors who failed to diagnose something that Terri was keeping to herself.

But he's the morals guy. Just carrying out my wife's wishes.

Jennifer | March 29, 2005, 12:49pm | #

Angie-
As for your question about Michael's disallowing the cameras, well, maybe it's because he knew his wife (who was apparently rather vain back in the day) wouldn't want the world to see photos showing how awful she now looks.

BillyRay-
I've been busy promoting the homosexual agenda, and am pleased to report five new converts this week alone--that's five newly-minted Lipstick Lesbians who will NEVER even THINK about trying to steal my boyfriend from me.

kinda makes ya wonder, don't it? | March 29, 2005, 12:57pm | #

Angie

All you have done is catalog all of the standard lies that the pro-life(?) crowd have been repeating.

None of your questions can be answered without itemizing the lies and distortion of facts that have been made by the constructors of the "they're killing Terri" conpiracy theory. There isn't enough time or space here. Do your own research.

Mona | March 29, 2005, 12:58pm | #

Angie asks: And even this is in question, since no one has been allowed to even attempt to feed her by mouth. And it is, by Florida law, illegal to withhold food or water by mouth from any living person. The very fact that Michael Schiavo will not allow anyone to attempt to feed her is criminal

You appear, like so many who comment on these matters, to be wholly unfamiliar with both Florida law and with the litigation history in this case. Your assertion that it is illegal to withhold food and water in a situation such as Terri Schiavo's is simply and flatly false. Many or most of your questions could be cleared up by going to Abstract Appeal blog , where a FL lawyer has posted a chronology and links to most relevant moving papers and Orders.

Among the many things you can learn there, Florida law specifically allows people in end-of-life or PVS states to refuse all "life-prolonging procedures," which the Florida legislature has defined thusly:


"Life-prolonging procedure" means any medical procedure, treatment, or intervention, including artificially provided sustenance and hydration, which sustains, restores, or supplants a spontaneous vital function. The term does not include the administration of medication or performance of medical procedure, when such medication or procedure is deemed necessary to provide comfort care or to alleviate pain.
765.101(10), Florida Statutes

Lee | March 29, 2005, 12:58pm | #

1. Because a delivering food/water via a tube is artificial.

2. Maybe because he does not want a media circus around her (unlike the parents).

3. Following her wishes is caring for her.

4. No one has EVER said it was humane and painless. Everyone I've seen has said it is a horrible way to die.

5. Seems fine to me.

6. I'll take your word on this. But if she is not using her teeth, then there is very little reason to brush them. If she cannot swallow, she could asperate anything put in her mouth, so he is probably looking out for her well being by NOT brushing her teeth.

7. (see #6)

Jon H | March 29, 2005, 1:00pm | #

Angie,

Terri Schiavo was given last rites and communion twice, in the last week or so.

How often do you think she needs it? How sinful do you think she's being?

Reportedly she is *not* on a morphine drip.

And as far as food goes, do you want her to choke on it? She isn't going to swallow, she's going to inhale it into her lungs.

BillyRay | March 29, 2005, 1:01pm | #

Jenny, I knew you had a sense of humor!

Lipstick Lesbians who will NEVER even THINK about trying to steal my boyfriend from me.

I guess that's better than Bull Dykes.

Dynamist | March 29, 2005, 1:05pm | #

Such violent doubts over the credibility of the testimony and the players reinforces my question:

Is it not reasonable to insist more than just one person review the entire body of facts (not just motions based on prior findings) before the the state intervenes to produce a mortal result?

Jon H | March 29, 2005, 1:16pm | #

Dynamist, keep in mind that 99% of the time or more, the decision never leaves the hospital room, and the motivations and conflicts of interest, however nefarious they might be, never come under scrutiny at all.

Dynamist | March 29, 2005, 1:29pm | #

Jon: We can only act upon what we know. In this case it seems the law has failed.

Perhaps we might consider a kinship right of appeal in all cases of suspended treatment where no clear instructions by the afflicted are available?

mark | March 29, 2005, 1:37pm | #

I doubt that any of the protestors have aided Terri's family over the last 15 years - held no ones hand, brought cookies, sat by her bedside - yet now they suddenly show up to complain. A bunch of thoughtless hypocrites.

Emmetropia | March 29, 2005, 1:41pm | #

Why no cameras? Because her parents had snuck a videocamera into her room, and then sold copies of the tape on their website for a $100 "donation." I half expect they'll shrink wrap her cremated remains and sell them as relics on ebay. Then believers can claim that Terri miraculously healed them. Terri will then be elevated to sainthood, and her image will be seen on slices of toast, which will also be sold on ebay.

Why no communion? Well, for starters her Priest had testified that she hadn't attended church in two years, which kind of brings her parent's assertion that she was a "devout" Catholic, into question. I haven't been a practicing Catholic in 25 years, but I'm so worried that my brother will try to force communion on me if I'm ever unconscious, that I've specifically stipulated that I not receive communion or last rites, in my advanced directives.

mark | March 29, 2005, 1:43pm | #

If I was Judge Greer, I'd show up at church and make them throw me out. Just for the fun of it.

just sayin' | March 29, 2005, 1:45pm | #

2. Why has Michael Schiavo not allowed cameras around Terri? This reeks of suspicion to me.

Yes, why not? I would feel so much better about Michael Schiavo if he were to allow the media to violate his defenseless wife's privacy. "Hey, guys - for five bucks a piece, you can wave a mylar balloon and see if her eyes track."

Isaac Bartram | March 29, 2005, 1:51pm | #

Mona's link above didn't work, but I believe this is it:

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html#timeline

Everyone should read this. It might clear up some questions.

Mr. Nice Guy | March 29, 2005, 1:55pm | #

Recent development: Now Jesse Jackson is showing up in support of the 'rents. The protestors are yelling "This is a CIVIL RIGHTS issue!!" in his presence. Right on, brother.

All we need now is Gallagher smashing cantalopes in front of the hospital.

Akira MacKenzie | March 29, 2005, 2:11pm | #

"Recent development: Now Jesse Jackson is showing up in support of the 'rents. The protestors are yelling "This is a CIVIL RIGHTS issue!!" in his presence. Right on, brother."

Just proving that:

A)The religious left isn't any better than the religious right.

B)Jackson is, and forever will be, a publicity whore.

Xrlq | March 29, 2005, 2:21pm | #

Cathy, you've written a lot of good stuff over the years, but this entry is not your finest hour:
There's the preposterous story by the lawyer who claimed that she elicited the beginning of an "I want to live" from Terri -- which, of course, conveniently happened with no witnesses and no tape recorder, and which this lawyer waited to report for a week after the removal of Terri's feeding tube.
I'm pretty skeptical about that claim myself, but making an issue of the "convenient" absence of a tape recorder is inexcusable. If the Schindlers tried to bring a tape recorder into the hospice, they'd be arrested.

Equally dumb is your "debunking" of the substantially correct claim that Schiavo never had an MRI. Yes, she did have one in 1990. No, it didn't show what the later CT scan supposedly showed, namely that her cerebral cortex was completely gone rather than severly damaged. That certainly wasn't the case in 1990, so the existence of an earlier MRI is completely beside the point.

Between those two misstatements, your implication that all acrimony on the Schiavo issue emanates from the pro-tube rather than the anti-tube side, and your claim Hammesfahr is a "quack" based on charges for which he was ultimately exonerated, I think I'll take a pass on reading your article. Next time, do better.

Thomas L. Knapp | March 29, 2005, 2:30pm | #

Quoth Jon H:

-----
Tom Knapp writes: " The bottom line question for me is whether there are ANY circumstances, excepting enforcement of a written, witnessed, notarized advance directive, under which the courts should decide whether someone lives or dies. My answer is an unequivocal "no.""

Does that also cover when Tom DeLay and his family had their father/husband disconnected in Texas?
-----

Was this done at the order of a court? If so, then yes, it is included in the statement I made. I don't think the statement was unclear in any way.

Tom Knapp

zeroentitlement | March 29, 2005, 2:30pm | #

Hey, Angie, I got some answers for you.

1. Terri was a bulimic. Were she cognizant, she'd probably be starving herself anyway, or upchucking anything that did pass her lips.

2. Do you allow news cameras into your family members' deathrooms?

3. God forbid someone in this Puritanical, self-flagellating, victim-wallow culture opts not to bond himself in slavery to a human houseplant for the best years of his life.

4. It isn't Terri's body that's toast. It's her brain. That's why she's taking the normal amount of time to die for someone not drinking or eating.

5. Again, how dare someone in this Puritanical blah-blah culture pursue a new life with a new partner, just because his bulimic, f'ed-up wife is now an immobile meatsack with the cognition and personality of a cauliflower. If he'd been a real American, he would have spent his days reading to her drooling form the inspirational tomes of Richard Bach, forsaking any wishes to have a family, and eschewing contact with all other women. Because Michael was married to her, dumbass. That's why he gets to make decisions for what's left of her.

6. You've caught him, all right! He was trying to force her to die from gingivitis! Speaking of fresh air and sunshine, why didn't the Schindlers keep her at their place and give her plenty of both? What's that you say? The Schindlers, champions of human life and dignity that they are, had her for three weeks, found her to be too much trouble to care for, and promptly wheeled her back into the hospice veggie bin?

7. She's had communion and last rites. Now, presumably, she won't burn in the fiery pits of hell. Without them, she certainly would have. Her God, apparently, does not suffer a helpless vegetable lightly.

Jon | March 29, 2005, 2:31pm | #

Dynamist: "Perhaps we might consider a kinship right of appeal in all cases of suspended treatment where no clear instructions by the afflicted are available?"

I have rarely seen my aunts, uncles, and cousins. Or even my oldest half-brother and half-sister. Most of them live in Seattle, while my immediate family has been in Connecticut for 35 years.
I've been to Seattle only three times in my 33 years of life.

Why should any of these people have any say in the matter, were I in a situation like Terry Schiavo?

Kinship does not magically impart knowledge of a person's wishes. Nor does it imply a willingness to carry out one's wishes, as seen with the Schindlers' determination to keep Terry alive no matter what she wanted.

Maybe some relative would disagree with my choice. Maybe they'd insist on keeping me alive, due to religious beliefs that I don't share. But you know what? If I'm allowed to die, they'll get over it. The offense to them is not particularly important to me, compared to the offense to *me* of keeping me hooked up to tubes as a vegetable for decades. Sorry to hurt their feelings, but it's not about them.

Mere kinship ought not to carry so much weight. Lots of people are estranged from their families. Many people have kooky relatives. Many families have diverse beliefs.

Lots of people develop beliefs and values of their own, separate from those of parents and siblings. But they're likely to marry someone who shares their own values and beliefs, and to have friends with those values and beliefs.

So it makes no sense to me that parents or siblings should trump others. Their emotional attachment isn't a good enough reason. It's not about them.

Jon | March 29, 2005, 2:36pm | #

Tom Knapp writes: "Was this done at the order of a court? If so, then yes, it is included in the statement I made. I don't think the statement was unclear in any way."

Not by order of a court. But then, the court is just enforcing Terri's will.

Are you sure the DeLays weren't doing their father in, against his wishes?

Anyway, note that the DeLays' decision didn't require that they seek out all the relatives, and okay it with everyone. As a result, there was no chance for Aunt Gertie in Texarkana to object and throw the thing into court.

Emmetropia | March 29, 2005, 2:37pm | #

Xrlq - Actually I found Dr. Hammesfahr's claims suspect, based on the fact he hawks his cures in the National Enquirer:
www.hni-online.com/national_enquirer_1999.htm

I'd run like hell if MY doctor ever advertised there. You apparently set a lower standard for your healthcare providers.

One would think that the Schindlers -who claimed they were prevented from having Terri examined -- would find someone a tad more reputable, when they presented their evidence in court.

Jon | March 29, 2005, 2:40pm | #

Xriq writes: "I'm pretty skeptical about that claim myself, but making an issue of the "convenient" absence of a tape recorder is inexcusable. If the Schindlers tried to bring a tape recorder into the hospice, they'd be arrested."

They could have brought a neutral witness, especially if they brought a lawyer who'd be posing such a crucial question.

The best case for the Shindlers is if they simply lied about the incident, and it never happened. The alternative is that it did happen, and they sat on the information for a week as Terri starved. I'd have to think that, if it did happen, we would have heard about it on cable within hours.

It probably wasn't even intended to sway the judge's opinion, but rather to increase public pressure on Jeb and George and the others. A little propaganda to go along with the rest of the dishonest rhetoric.

Fred | March 29, 2005, 2:42pm | #

Is it not reasonable to insist more than just one person review the entire body of facts (not just motions based on prior findings) before the the state intervenes to produce a mortal result?

So you'd support de novo federal hearings for all state capital murder convictions? Or would the presence of 12 upstanding citizens of Pinellas county who know nothing about how to evaluate expert testimony make it different?

hoof in mouth | March 29, 2005, 3:40pm | #

I (usually) appreciate the writers of Reason and think hard even about the points I disagree with, and they are always sharp and well-researched. That said, this case has brought about the most vile, vitriolic comments I have ever had the displeasure of reading in a professional publication. If somehow the "pro-tubists" have generated anything as stark-raving vile as the sentiment expressed here and in other Terri posts, I somehow missed it. I have long wanted a filter for specific commenters, but now choose to filter Reason. I guess I wasn't as libertarian as I thought. Long Live DHex, king of the kommenters.

Angie | March 29, 2005, 3:44pm | #

Do you allow news cameras into your family members' deathrooms?

Do you think Terri has been DYING all of these years? It was Terri's "life room" until last week when death was forced in. The family made the tape public in a desperate attempt to save their daughter's life. It is unquestionable evidence of life.

You people believe that if someone doesn't put food in their mouth, their teeth magically remain clean? No further comment on that one.

No one has adequately answered why Michael Schiavo would have told the judge that he wanted to care for his wife for all of their years, never once mentioning that she did not want to be artificially kept alive. It's possible and very likely that he simply lied about her "wishes". He lied, one way or another. Either to the first judge, or to the second. I don't understand why so many people believe him to be an upstanding man, despite so much evidence to the contrary.

To the person with the "living houseplant" comment, I disagree with adultery in any shape or form. However, I don't see how he can abandon his marriage with his wife (which is what it amounts to) and yet still expect to remain her sole legal guardian. He's either her husband or he's not. And from his actions we can see that he is not, so her guardianship should have reverted back to her parents.

xray | March 29, 2005, 3:53pm | #

The best thing abt following the Shiavo case on H&R is the return of threats to never again read H&R. I hope someone is taking names!

kinda makes ya wonder, don't it? | March 29, 2005, 3:58pm | #

So Angie

You sound like you've just stuck your fingers in your ears and are saying "LALALALALA, I can't here you."

Numerous postings above contain either the facts or links to facts in this case. Read them.

Mona | March 29, 2005, 4:05pm | #

First, I apologize that I screwed up the tags in my link to Abstract Appeal, and agree with Isaac Bertram that everyone should read it. He gave the url.

Angie asserts: To the person with the "living houseplant" comment, I disagree with adultery in any shape or form. However, I don't see how he can abandon his marriage with his wife (which is what it amounts to) and yet still expect to remain her sole legal guardian. He's either her husband or he's not. And from his actions we can see that he is not, so her guardianship should have reverted back to her parents.

She, Angie, is no wife; this is why Michael won a loss of consortium award in the med mal case. Beside the point that in many or most jurisdictions having intercourse with her would constitute rape (she is incapable of giving consent), she cannot maintain a relationship with Michael on any level at all. She is a shell.

When this tragedy befell her, it befell Michael, too. They were starting to try to have children. He wanted children. (Should he have impregnated Terri to get them after her brain injury? Is not the very idea revolting?) So, after he made many good faith efforts to bring Terri back to absolutely no avail, he moved on to another woman, who could and did give him children. I do not remotely blame him.

I have been separated from my husband for 8 years; he is gay and has had the same domestic partner since we split. If I fell into a PVS tomorrow, and did not have an advance directive (which I do), I would want him making my decisions well, well before I would wish for my parents to do so. He knows my feelings on these matters intimately (we are in agreement), while my hyper-orthodox Catholic parents could never be trusted to carry out my wishes.

Jon | March 29, 2005, 4:33pm | #

Angie writes: "The family made the tape public in a desperate attempt to save their daughter's life. It is unquestionable evidence of life."

Actually, it is unquestionable evidence of heavy editing and cherry-picking of the best moments out of a large amount of video which showed Terri looking unresponsive to her environment.

BillyRay | March 29, 2005, 4:33pm | #

Reader review of George J. Felos book, "Litigation As Spiritual Practice." at Amazon. Felos is Michael Schiavo's lawyer. Shoot, he'd fit right in with 75 percent of the Reasonaniacs.


Felos the Grim Reaper?, November 10, 2003
Reviewer: A reader
This book contains bizarre stories about the author's fervent desire to end the lives of severely disabled or gravely sick patients. Estelle Browning's case set a precedent whereby Felos advances his "right to kill" agenda while making a tidy profit for himself as an author.

In this book, Felos claims he has the ability to psychically communicate with the souls of people in comas by SHOUTING at them, "DO YOU WANT TO DIE?? DO YOU WANT TO DIE??". In response, he hears voices in his head that he claims to be emmanating from the soul of the patient. Predictably, the answer Felos hears is "yes", which inspires him to take aggressive legal actions to dehydrate and starve a patient who has left no advance healtchare directives.

This book strikes me as being authored by a new age nutcase at best, and a dangerous man at worst. In this book, Felos claims that he visualized a plane crash during a flight on which he was a passenger, which actually caused the plane to begin to crash. He writes that God Himself spoke to Felos to warn him: "Be careful what you think. You are more powerful than you realize." I wonder if the FAA is aware of Mr. Felos' claims!

Felos is no simple legal advocate for Michael Schiavo in the Florida state courts where he is fighting for the death of Terri Schindler-Schiavo. He told the St. Petersburg Times he wants to write about this case too and his "spiritual journey" with Terri Schiavo. As Litigation as Spiritual Practice demonstrates, Mr. Felos is an egomaniacal visionary bent on death as the ultimate demonstration of his messianic powers. Judging from this book, Felos appears to be clinically delusional.

JEH | March 29, 2005, 4:47pm | #

Regarding the woman who heard Terri Schiavo say "I want to live" -- when she told the story on Sean Hannity's radio show and on Hannity & Colmes, the only thing that I heard her say was that Terri said "I want ...." Isn't it just as plausible (maybe more plausible, given that a court has determined that she did not wish to be kept alive in such a state) that she was trying to say "I want to die"?

dhex | March 29, 2005, 4:54pm | #

"Long Live DHex, king of the kommenters."

huh?

Mona | March 29, 2005, 5:06pm | #

JEH asks: Isn't it just as plausible (maybe more plausible, given that a court has determined that she did not wish to be kept alive in such a state) that she was trying to say "I want to die"?

The lawyer testifying to this is either lying or deluded. I've worked with mentally retarded people, some of them profoundly retarded. I think of one who had an IQ no higher than 20. His favorite activity was smearing his own feces on his wall. The notion that he could have an intellectual grasp of what it means to be alive as opposed to dead, to connect one state or the other with the presence or absence of a surgically implanted feeding tube, and to articulate a desire to live with it, is preposterous beyond uttering. (And is why ever since he became a legal adult, his mother has been his legal guardian.)

Terri Schiavo is not even retarded, and has no measurable IQ; she is in a permanent vegetative state, with no higher brain function -- her EEGs are flat. She does not have a scintilla of the intellectual capacity to express either the desire to live, or to die.

just sayin' | March 29, 2005, 5:13pm | #